I’ve never met a minion player with reasonable takes. This continues to be the case. You want minions to completely hold aggro, do all your damage for you, and be invincible. Rendering the player to just stand there or dodge abilities without the need to do anything other than buff minions.
Minions shouldn’t be squishy, they shouldn’t die to common enemy abilities en mass. “Dangerous enemy abilities” SHOULD be “dangerous” to both players and minions. Keeping your minions alive should be part of gameplay. Reviving minions should be part of game play.
90% as a start? So by as a start, you’re suggesting that 90% is a minimum, and what, immune to damage is preferable? Jesus…
It’s per point, and it’s also uncapped poison resistance. It’s quite common to have over capped poison resistance. (actually suggested to have overcapped resists in general due to debuffs and mechanics that lower resists.) If You have say 120 uncapped poison resist, and 10 points in the node, that’s 1200 ward per 6 seconds.
You can argue the merits of whether or not 1200 ward / 6s is good or not, but let’s not be disingenuous and say it’s 75 ward and use the word “commonly” as though that’s an accurate qualifier. And why divide it to say 33.3 ward / second when you will never generate it per second? Also very disingenuous.
If the value was 10 instead of 1, you could get 12,000 ward every 6 seconds at only 120 uncapped poison res. And at that value, you would purposely WAY overcap your poison res to the point where you’re getting 20,000 ward / 6s. We finally got away from ward being absolutely busted. Let’s not go back to that.
This is not how you give feedback to developers. It makes you look like just another toxic player and your feedback will just get an eye roll and ignored. We have to be better than this dude. You need to be better than this.
The current DR is 50%, that means minions get half the damage by design.
It’s been changed to 60%.
The issue of minions is that they have a problem with health, you cannot re-summon them adequately as you miss the options to build mana scaling + defenses + minion specific scaling into your equipment reliably.
So a minion build is by design generally less tanky then other builds. The upside is that minions are supposed to take aggro.
So, if a minion takes aggro but cannot even sustain a single hit then what is the aggro good for? EHG could simply let enemies ignore minions and solely attack the player and it would currently be an upside for zoo builds in the long run.
That’s the problem here.
Yes, that’s what the minion style is.
You stand back, avoid attack, buff your minions so they don’t die and do more damage while you pray fervently that no powerful swift attacks will end your character before the enemies are ended.
That’s minion playstyle in every single game having it.
The balancing comes by the death of minions versus the ability to re-summon them. Currently you can re-summon a fraction of your zoo with your mana pool, which means once they’re down… you’re down, end of topic for that simply, you cannot avoid it as you got no measures to stop enemies anymore. You cannot tank em, you cannot kill em, you cannot resummon your minions reliably. It’s over.
This leads to several minutes long running in a circle slooooowly wittling down singular enemies which are powerful. Which can be champions (some demolish minions) or bosses.
To solve that either the cost for minions has to be substantially reduced or the survivability substantially increased.
When enemies do 300% Health overkill hits to your minions with a single effect, especially DoTs then the minions need to be able to survive that much.
A player can avoid a dangerous enemies abilities though, a minion can’t.
Now… if we had respective control over minions to allow that in a reasonable way I would agree immediately with you, but we don’t have that.
We have ‘loiter around us and engage when we get decently close to enemies’ or ‘run headfirst into enemies’. That’s it.
In PoE there’s the ‘convocation’ skill for example with instantly summons all minions to you, so you can pull em out of danger. There is no equivalent in LE existing currently. So we can’t do that.
So the ‘deadly’ attacks need to be ‘non deadly’ for the minions or the downtime between those needs to be respectively high.
It means that minions take 20% of the damage they currently take.
As mentioned, when you got overkill damage of 300% of their health 20% staying is still deadly for em.
That’s how messed up minions against powerful boss mechanics are.
Julra is a struggle because of the lasers (minions don’t move out of them, they just die) or the degen places from Aberroth/Uberroth (same issue). Also they don’t run out of the AoE from the ‘Emperor of Corpses’, the beam from ‘Gaspar’, the storm from ‘Heorot’, the lasers from ‘Lagon’ and so on. How the heck do you expect people to play when a single summon costs 30% of their mana and the uptime is 2 seconds?
Yes, and it’s worthless for every single point… like every… single… situational Ward generator in LE currently.
1200 ward in 6 seconds is 200 ward/second which means you around 60% of a T5 experimental ward per missing health Affix as a end-result, for 10 level investment, given that build has only a measly 2k health. While other classes get 2% DR per point comparatively.
And not to speak that the Affix isn’t even situational.
Ward/second Affixes and the situational ward generators are all extremely underpowered in the game currently, which is why the majority of high ward players either create it through specific synergies like ‘per hit’ which is powerful, the mana usage into ward ones or stuff like Wraithlord’s relatively fast paced generation that only works because the damage is ridiculously OP (and now finally nerved properly and hence also broken at last).
Ward went from ‘everyone needs to go ward if possible!’ to ‘Ward is really bad to scale in any reliable way outside of a few OP mechanics’.
So you think it’s common for people to go over 75% res and hence likely use more Affix space which could be used for a health modifier or armor instead?
That’s why I said ‘commonly’. Overcap is only worthwhile in very few instances, and that is primarily DR reasons and not some horrendously underpowered node.
For 10 points investment, if the situation triggers, which immediately degens down vastly as you won’t have ward retention or threshold high enough to hold it.
Then let’s say 5 to actually provide a better solution then 10, 10 is a bit too big if it’s even a 10 point node, which it likely is not but rather a 6 point node. At which point 10 is reasonable again.
I’ve stopped giving other feedback for that topic since it’s going into the void anyway. I’ve spoken at large and in extreme detail about MG issues as well as solutions. Repeatedly… nigh constantly… with answering people’s arguments, ideas and refining it ever further and further.
Go backwards in the forum and read up on those posts, some of them are over 5 times longer then my answer to you here and purely filled with point after point after point of problems as well as solutions and mathematical examples as well as comparisons to existing systems in either reality or other games.
If you get ignored for years while speaking up about clear problems before the system even releases and nothing to address the core issues is done at all then you kinda start to feel like you got the right to be pissed.
And I’m still rather pissed then simply leaving, for the moment. Revenue from my side is already dried up, the question is only ‘do I stay and put effort in or should I actively warn everyone I know about buying the game should they even showcase an inkling of urge to do so?’ For now it’s the effort, take it or leave it.
No. I played minions last season, and the reason that minions are overkilled by that much is ENTIRELY due to putting every single fraction of power allotment into damage. Which players would then snapshot defense. Or vice versa, though snap shotting defense was easier. Making your minions that much of a glass cannon is a choice. If you want to have the discussion as to whether minions would have enough damage after putting investment into defense, that’s a fair discussion to have. But let’s not just pretend that we aren’t purposely building our minions that way.
Yes? Then why did you frame your point as if it was the total you could get?
I’m surprised you tried this argument after I already pointed out how misleading it is in my last post. Dividing it to ward per second is COMPLETELY misleading and disingenuous as you will never get the ward over time like that. You get it in a chunk. Which is materially and *substantially different. This isn’t being nitpicky about the language. You’re being dishonest by doing that.
Yes, I do. And if you don’t, you’re playing wrong. There are a ton of negative affixes in the game that reduce your resists. From curses, to monolith debuffs, to other random mechanics.
No. Overcapping by a substantial amount is only worthwhile in a few instances.
That’s a choice.
Really had to distill this one down to really show how entitled you sound here. They are not obligated to listen to you. It sounds like you at one point gave your feedback respectfully. That’s great. At NO point, does this mean that if they don’t make the changes you want, you get to be childishly disrespectful to them. It’s coming off as a childish tantrum. You didn’t get what you want, so you’re going to throw a fit and start throwing stuff, crying, and stamping your feet.
For all we know, they are working on a bigger overhaul that’s going to take time. Or maybe they think it’s fine as it is. We don’t know. But the “listen to me or else” attitude doesn’t help anyone, and just makes the rest of the playerbase look bad.
Yeah, and zoo builds still do only mediocre damage when you do that.
So, you can instead put it into defense and run it ‘normal’ and then your damage is atrocious, which causes more defenses to be needed and your minions to be dead anyway.
Normal echos work with em at least.
Try to make a build with crows, they suck defense wise, even if you put a decent amount into em.
Never said that, the issue is that it also was basically the only viable point to build em.
We got Aberroth to kill… we got Uberroth to kill. Aberroth is already a bit of a problem for zoo builds specifically as individual minions just drop dead regularly, skellies are made out of paper. Not to speak of Uberroth which is a rather frantic fight with loads of degens sitting around, you’ve basically no chance to sustain any time up for em.
Yes, that’s the issue.
Large chunks need to be substantially stronger then over time effects.
Ward struggles severely with generators of any kind. Some are created entirely nonsensical, the emergency ones? They are a safety measure for a follow-up attack happening shortly after.
But the question is, if you invest those points there… where do you get your steady ward generation? And if you invest points into those on top… how will you actually scale your damage?
The issue with all ward generating classes are that currently other classes simply have vastly superior defensive measures, a single glance at Sentinel is enough. DR without end, res without end, armor aplenty and also health and endurance in quite hefy quantities. Not to mention you can go shield too and do some block and still scale as some of the skills have extreme innate scaling.
This is simply not upheld for most builds in the ward segment. Spellblade creates per attack and is decent-ish but only that, ‘decent’. It’s tied directly to damage upkeep and hence when you gotta avoid things you’re nigh defenseless, you have to attack to survive. Which is entirely different from for example a meteor mage which while also in the need to attack… that’s not based on a target but mana expenditure, and that can also be heavily recovered with some investment, creating thousands of Ward relatively quickly and reliably.
That all outpaces defensive measures on gear. The only sources improving ward reliably are uniques and the experimental Affix on gloves. Ward/second is nigh useless comparatively. You can invest extremely in it and still not even come close.
The only option to get proper ward retention is also not on gear but on idols, taking up class-specific slots. And threshold is nigh nowhere to be found at all.
That’s the only reason the situational ones seem interesting at all… because dropping into danger will create a short buffer… but that buffer decays swiftly if not fully invested into it and is often gone to a decent chunk when it’s needed for the follow-up. Ward simply underperforms nowadays.
Yes, and unlike competitors like Path of Exile in Last Epoch the base damage is designed around 0% res rather then 75% res. Hence every % missing in Path of Exile is the equivalent of missing 4% in Last Epoch. Makes it viable to not cap.
Especially poison is prone to not being capped as there’s not many effects actually dealing meaningful amounts. The poison DoT is the most dangerous, which is better kept in check through reducing DoT damage directly, for example via the experimental Affix on Gloves or the amulet base.
Oh, they are absolutely not, you’re 100% right there!
And I also don’t expect them to specifically listen to my suggestions.
What I expect EHG to do is to bring their damn broken crap at least into working order when dozens of people point out the core issue as to why it’s broken and some people - like me - provide solutions to that by putting it all cohesively together to make a sense of it.
Like not using Gold as a currency for MG since it’s a double-dip issue with CoF and de-valuating mechanics like Lightless Arbour completely.
Or using a multi-step currency system (kinda copper/silver/Gold) to allow the resource limit to not repeatedly be reached by players after a week+. A alternative currency based on ‘1’ rather then ‘2000’ as a starting point is also viable.
Or implementing a usable and properly incentivized currency sink to battle inflation which is extremely rampant.
Or using a power-based scaling system to regulate base prices to allow people to at least profit when the market gets flooded. Alternatively using a listing limit since that inherently causes the flooding to cease.
Or handling the access restrictions properly, for example by only unlocking the ability to buy boss-uniques when you’ve killed the respective boss already, hence having progressed to that stage. To alleviate repetition of content and not shortcutting it entirely.
Absolutely fine for you to see it as that! I know I’m not reasonable, that’s why something like that is called ‘venting’.
To be precise here… for all we know they’re doing jack-shit.
We got zero information on anything in that regard.
They also did jack-shit for the core issues since the release of 1.0.
Insanity is to think it would be different now without any inkling of something showcasing it being different.
Yeah, and that would make em shit devs plainly spoken
Because it isn’t, everyone with two brain cells or more can see it isn’t and the community repeatedly points it out with large-scale streamers having named it as a core reason as to why they quit early.
The two core reasons are the itemization state of the game, namely smooth progression from start to end… and those playing MG the state of the market turning into a mess.
The third is simply content depth, hence ‘running out of things to do’, but that’s something which comes naturally over time.
The first 2 turn people away permanently, the 3rd? That one makes people keep looking at the product.
As for the ‘entitlement’ directly.
I’ve paid money back when the majority of the kickstarter promises were still something that was actually reasonable to look forward to. The last time I checked in my country a crowdfunding with reward system for backing is a contractual obligation.
So yes, it doesn’t give me the ‘right’ to call out individuals.
But it definitely does give me the right to call the company hot garbage. Why? Because they are breaking their contracts with their customers. They don’t deliver what they promise or in such an awful state in some areas that it’s laughable to name it ‘fulfilled’.
EHG promised a full campaign in 2020, that’s 5 years ago.
They promised voice acting, which is nigh only available for the player characters… if we can call a mage repeatedly spitting out ‘fools fools fools!’ as ‘voice acting’. It’s sub-par beyond end.
They promised 3 distinct end-game mechanics all at the scale of monoliths.
They promised that the game will have PvP (I don’t care about that one bit, but I’m sure some did or even still do)
They promised a proper trade system, and instead only now it starts to at least have the baseline functions in the UI… while the core functionality itself is inacceptable.
And all before they sold to another company which now holds all the rights to demand and ask for ‘whatever’ basically. Before fulfilling what people bought into.
Go ahead and defend that.
If not then don’t go all ‘pikachu face’ when people get pissed off and call the company out for being crap in what they do. First of all… respect is earned. Secondly, if you can’t fulfill what you promise even closely then don’t promise it. Thirdly, if you fuck up then at least act properly so the people which bought into it get remunerated properly.
All those things never happened… so kindly… I recommend leaving it at that. If venting addressed at the company and not individuals is ticking you off and the proper statement that ‘their management is garbage’ (because it is, otherwise they wouldn’t be in that situation, right?) is a problem… then you are kinda a part of the current problem of the gaming industry which screws customers over left, right and center.
Do stupid things, win stupid prices.
I did read through all the changes before commenting. Which new passives do you think will make such a significant difference that they improve minion army builds vastly more than single minion builds in a way that even starts to make a dent in the difference in usage between the abomination vs skeleton warrior/mages?
The vast majority of the changes will affect the builds that already worked, and the abomination skill tree got quite literally all of the attention, while trees of abilities that are older, more out-of-date, and used less continued to get ignored. I’d feel a lot more confident if this update was touted as “part 1” of the necromancer rework, but as it stands I’m not convinced that there will be any further meaningful changes for years.
Can someone explain that one? I don’t quite see the point of it
You can basically now “destroy” a class specific idol and drop a new one, do I get that right? Is that worth doing?
Currently you have to go through a Tomb or Cemetery to re-enchant these idols, but they are making so you can do it at the Woven Enchanter which you can access directly at the Haven of Silk after running your first Cemetery.
I see, thx!
Ah, I thought Woven Enchanter IS the thing at the end of a tomb/cemetery?
Has there always been one in the Haven of Silk, or is that a new addition too?
Yes, Woven Enchanter is the thing at the end of a tomb/cemetery. You still have to run a tomb/cemetery.
Yes.
Previously you had no way of rerolling idols, so you had to drop all the good rolled idols. Now you can pick up any idol of the correct size with stats you don’t want, and you can spend Amber to try to make it into a good one.
Season 3 with a minion revamp and still you haven’t fixed Frenzy Totem’s Maim node even though it’s been reported as broken for years. IT DOES NOTHING. And neither do you when it comes to fixing it, apparently.
If you never intend to fix it then remove the skill altogether instead of wasting people’s time by fooling them into making builds around skills that don’t work. Such negligence.
It looks like to play a frosty lich in the new season you HAVE to go with Flay. Even though Flay is a cool addition it feels kinda weird that a cold lich has no caster variation without being a much inferior version of using Flay.
Chaosbolt Frostbite - definitely Flay trigger is better.
Marrow Shards Crit - does Frigid Shards even convert Bone Splinters? The description says it only applies to the base physical damage of Marrow Shards.
Would be really nice if frost caster lich can be somewhat viable compared to the Flay version. Otherwise it’s possible 99% of the new lich builds will just be Flay triggering X. It’s a cool skill but this is not great for build diversity with Lich being under the spotlight now.
Cannot Wait, so excited to jump into this patch, Love the game and the entire team over at EHG, you guys put so much work into making a game the community actually WANTS to play and that means the world to me and im sure many others as an ARPG enthusiast.
