To me it’s just a regulation of the market. If you have to shatter “desireable” items to get a currency to buy “desireable” items the items for sale will be lower then without such a system in place.
Same goes for currency :). Why should I sell you my vendor trash A if you don’t offer a quadrupillion monkyshroomcoins? As usual it comes down to what is offered and how big is the demand. Sure noone would be stupid enough to trade the Slab vs a Bastion but bottomline both items are worth the same even when the powerlevel of both items is different like day and night.
Subjective bases always win here and people always want to buy as cheap as possible and sell as expensive as possible. Maybe there should be set prices for trading you can undercut if you want but if you try to sell something for a higher price a spacetime dragon appears and bite of the head of the usurer resulting in a permadead char ^^.
You might see that I have no realsolution for this problem but I still think it is a good idea to have a mix of systems in place. One that helps you get going aka restricted free trade and party based gifting in the endgame. While there is most likely a need for some kind of currency I still think the implementation will be a problem because in the theory I spin we realy talk about trash items that are nice to have but terrible if you compare 0LP to even 1LP uniques.
Solution… shatter unwanted uniques to get unique dust and buy/sell unique items for a set ammount of dust while the dust should be usefull as a currency in a different area of the game that has a chance to yield better loot.
It’s maybe the most boring solution to have set prices but I can’t think of something else that’s fair and as little rng as possible. Getting better stuff with the currency can be as rng as it will because it’s just a bonus on top that should not impact droprates.
If you change the outcome of a unique shatter by rarity of the unique you help the people that already have and easy time with the game. Solely for balancing reasons I wouldn’t like to see that but I understand the thought and the reasoning behind it.
Realistically, dedicated players could setup external resources to serve as currency, like forum gold for D2 (which would be considerably worse than having an in-game currency).
Alternatively, again taking ispiration from D2, something like a SoJ would be appointed.
Note that this is under the assumption that trading is something worth doing for endgame players, which might not be the case if the things that are allowed to be traded was to be too restricted.
One of the worst things for me with Diablo 3 was playing 95% of my time with my wife, but getting a killer drop for her that dropped in the 5% of time that I wasn’t playing with her. D3’s implementation just discouraged me from playing unless I could play with her.
Why not some sort of balance between this restrictive trading and a full on barter system? Here is what I’d love to see:
You can trade any item that drops with any player in the group when the item drops.
You can trade any item with any player you’ve grouped with for more than an hour in the current cycle, provided the item dropped after that hour.
I get the reasoning behind wanting to severely limit trade like this announcement outlines. My problem is that it really kills any sort of community for people who play with friends who have inconsistent schedules, but still want to contribute to each others’ success. Or friend groups that maybe exceed the group size limit and need to split off into smaller groups.
So my friends starts the game before he goes to work and groups with me and while he stays in the hub I’m able to trade him all drops I want from the time he went to work till he got home? That’s a VERY generous friend trade system and you simply can allow trade with friends and you have the same thing.
It will take maybe some hours untill someone points at other posts above and writs an essay about how expolitive the system you want is .
I like the idea to trade with my friends but I think we need some restrictions to it that are worse then playing 1h togheter to get free trade.
Regarding “That’s a VERY generous friend trade system and you simply can allow trade with friends and you have the same thing.” If you use a frame of reference of what was promised, some sort of auction house/barter system, this is quite restrictive. If you use a frame of reference of what the devs announced last month, it is not very restrictive. I’d rather look at this from the frame of reference set by the expectations we’ve had for years rather than weeks.
I’m not saying it’s a perfect idea that solves all of the problems they are trying to address/avoid, but it would make for a more enjoyable experience for me and the people I play with than what the currently announced plan is. With the direction they are heading, for me, it disincentivizes playing solo. Disincentivizing solo play means playing less. That’s not what I want.
To be really clear, I don’t like the idea of a high level character twinking his low level friend. I’d like whatever is implemented to try to not allow for this, but not if the price is that we have a very restrictive trading system that makes it not worthwhile playing solo. I would rather they err on the side of “fun” when deciding what/how to implement this.
Maybe my suggestion could be tweaked – you can trade anything that drops with people you’ve played x amount of time with with in the last y days. It was just an idea.
I do as well but they never promised unrestricted trade anywhere and always mentioned playing the game and killing enemys should be the main source of item aquisition. I’m for a as little as possible restricted trade system that eliminates as many exploits as possible aka RMT as well as botting and so on and so forth.
To make this possible you need some more restrictions. I began with a trade group system. When you join you need to wait 1 week untill you can trade with people. If you leave the group you have a 1 week cd to join a new trade group and start the CD of 1 week to trade again. That’s 2 weeks downtime for every RMT action and that wasn’t restrictive enough for some trade dislikers ^^.
Right now a few people play arround with the idea of free vendor trash trading aka everything up to rare rarity as well as set items and 0LP uniques are tradeable without any restrictions but everything else can only be gifted with the current system.
As you might see I come a long way from “I want free trade with friends” to other ideas just in the high hope to find a middleground.
I’m 100% with you in that regard.
Afaik there is no possibility to carry someone from 0 to hero.
It isn’t a bad idea by any means and I ask myself where all the trade haters went because normaly it takes only few hours untill the discussion cycle starts anew :D.
I’ll be totaly happy with beeing friends for X time and played In party in the last X days to be able to trade this would be awesome and to my liking this is restrictive enough but that’s only me ^^.
If you aren’t togheter in one zone at the same time you are in different time lines and if you exchange items from a different timeline the universe goes boom and jumps to another timeline and that’s why it looks like you cant trade while you still kill a universe full of monsters and people while doing so splitseconds ago.
It’s a bit of a bad idea because it instantly came to my mind but lore wise you can excuse everything with the timetravel theme of the game that is there even if it is poorly implemented.
In the example it is technicly free trade after a very little entry restriction of playing for an hour in the example. Theoreticly there is a restriction but practicaly 1h is nothing why I made some examples in the same thread ^^.
You cant trade, you have to do everything yourself, its a time travelling game where gold reigns supreme for 5000 years
If Last Epoch was real life and you needed a plumber well get fked you better learn how to plumb turds you arent allowed to pay others for their services as…well there is none
Without trading, valuable items lose their value. For a party player, it is ok to gift with each other party players; For people like me mostly doing solo will lose intention of farming from time to time, because I feel farming for nothing.
When gifting becomes the only way, it is unfair for players who do not like this method, or play in solo but want to trade sometimes.
It makes me feel EHG is trying to control too much stuff, I dont like to be taught how to play a fun game, what I should focus in game, like yes I need to party, I need to farm for what I need, because that is how EHG makes me to do, I should only know how to farm farm farm, NO, most items I farm are trash and there is no way I can do about.
I know there are many bad ends for farming games with trades like early diablo 3, but there are also good ends for farming games with free tradings like POE. I really like the idea of “bazaar”，it feels real. Even games like grim dawn, with no online saves, I had this game since the beginning, I became Admin of the biggest chinese GD community which today has 177,065 followers, and has 2,348,025 open topics, more then 500 different builds alive in differen period. I have seem players come and go, farming hard, free trades keep some of them really enjoy in farming, people dont like tradings will keep farming what they like, it does not harm the sociaty. They chat every 24h 7day a week, they parties, they argue they laugh, trade players with non-trade players. Nothing will harm them from trading because it is personal.
unfortunate that this is the route the game went down
I’d somewhat lost interest since I backed a long time ago due to priorities in development that didn’t make a lot of sense but I still hoped that things would turn around
removing trade and taking the game in a more single player or just with friends direction is far removed from the vision I backed though
I’m going to stop following development progress I think but I hope the game turns out well for whatever audience its going for
I had fun during the early stages at least but this is no longer the PoE/diablo killer I had hoped for
good luck
Solo: No trade, no need to balance drops, exactly the game is right now.
Coop Limited: The system you’ve developed, no free trade, instance trade only, no need to balance drops, everything the game has right now with coop instanced.
Free Trade: A system with auction house, free trade without restrictions but all the drop rates are reduced globally by a percentage, like 80%, for example. The percentage reduction will affect all currenct drop rates the same way keeping the balance.
Great approach, and great explanation of the reasoning!
I much prefer the focus on finding my own items and having the game balanced around the ability for a player to find and craft their own gear. Drops should be exciting because of what you can do with them. Not because of how much someone will pay you for them.
Trade is the worst aspect of PoE and I absolutely detest it. I have never felt happiness or a sense of achievement trading in that game.
even when the powerlevel of both items is different like day and night.
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