Ok my word choice, was probably not the best i admit.
But his wording was very…objective. Like it sounds like “his can’t be a thing at all under no circumstances”
I just wanted to connect that with my other statments about video games generally become more complex and expensive to develop to statisfy enough players.
So now the discussion should be should devs raise upfront prices? add ads to their video games? add mtx? add subscription?
But well, that get’s way off-topic and if some1 is really interested in discussion this, i happily join any new thread on that topic.
Just wanna throw in my 2 cents on games pricing. Im not gonna argue whats right or wrong when it comes to charging prices, as everyone ofc has their own opinions, but heres mine…
I never compare games when it comes to their prices, if i should do that i would be outraged that WoW had cost me something like 1000$ and D2 was something like 20-40$(dont remember excactly), and they both kept me entertained for around 5 years each.
Instead i try to look at the quality of the entertainment, and the time it keeps me entertained, and if a game can keep me hooked for 150+ hours a month i will have absolutely no problem paying something in the lines of 30-50$ every month for that. No other paid entertainment in the world can give me so many hours of fun for that price.
And so far LE has given me 1000 hours of fun for the price of 40$…It will take me less than 2 hours to burn that amount of money down at the local Pub.
So if we are to pay a few extra bucks for some mtx later on to keep a great game going im all in for that.
Maybe i have an old school mind for looking at it like that, but…i AM old haha
You didn’t respond to my point you can just not buy any mtx and buy the game. How is that different from them not having mtx available for those who want to support them further? I won’t hold my breathe for an answer because there isn’t a difference. If anything it’s even better for the person who doesn’t buy mtx because they will get more content funded by those who do for free (beyond what they originally paid for).
lol, GGG and PoE are literal light years ahead of every other RPG that exists - these companies know they cannot compete so they make a ‘slower paced’ RPG because they simply cant do what GGG does and offer such fast paced gameplay - amazing currency system, interacting with maps, boxes and many many things other aRPGS haven’t even though of
PoE has a shit payment model though, after playing for years I have everything I need to play and thus do not need to make anymore grudge purchases to a company that doesn’t need anything from a long term player
Grim Dawn/D3 were the best payment models are you paid ONE time fee and had access to everything without needing to keep shelling out more money
Not much else to say really on the subject that hasn’t already been said 1000 times
Grim Dawn exists. A game that has no MTX. you can give continued support through positive reviews and telling your friends about it or gifting it to your friends, and buying expansions.
No Man’s sky exist. A game that has no MTX and has been doling out expansions like its nothing. though the case can be made that they get funding from sony still they are indie.
plenty of games are successfull without MTX. throwing money into a hole in the name of “Continued Support” and acting like games with no MTX are unsuccessful is not my way when i know that isnt true in the slightest.
I tried telling the bank that instead of paying the mortgage this month I’d tell all my friends who nice they are and how everyone should bank with them but for some reason they weren’t ok with that and wanted actual money…
If they’re getting money from a publisher they aren’t indie (which means independent), and no publisher is going to keep bankrolling an “independent” studio after the game has come out (royalties being an entirely separate thing).
The only support they got from Sony was for promotion and publication (not development).
dude how many times do we have to point out you dont have to buy any cosmetics. Game development isn’t free regardless of examples of games that might have found other funding. You don’t have to throw money in a hole, you only have to pay the upfront cost. You are cherry picking and its sad. I paid 40 dollars or something in alpha and I already feel like I got my moneys worth after 350 hours, the game isn’t even released yet.
I looked up just ONE of the games you suggested.
Buy Grim Dawn CDN$ 27.99
CONTENT FOR THIS:
CDN$ 6.49
Grim Dawn - Crucible Mode DLC
CDN$ 9.99
Grim Dawn - Steam Loyalist Items Pack
CDN$ 20.49
Grim Dawn - Ashes of Malmouth Expansion
CDN$ 18.49
Grim Dawn - Forgotten Gods Expansion
CDN$ 10.29
You are wrong. How is this more reasonable than optional mtx?
Total is roughly $110
I also follow a bunch of ARPG players and Ive never heard of grim dawn while all of them are talking about LE.
The “loyalist items pack” is basically a bundled mtx. Please stop your non sensical rant now.
I’ll just wait for you to explain how the bundled item pack is somehow better than specific cosmetic options for much lower prices. (EDIT) better yet LE could split into 2 games, the original story and then the monoliths and arena could be another 20 dollars… that would be so much better… sarcasm. The bundle could be 10% off
@punc@DesireDemon, well, you’re both wrong, GD is clearly £57.25 (for the DLC) + £19.99 for the base game (£77.24 for everything, or £45.45 for the definitive edition which is ), not either of your silly foreign currencies…
Also, having seen (& participated in) several of these types of arguments, you both hold your view points very firmly & are unlikely to be changing them any time soon, so why don’t you just agree to disagree before things escalate too far & @Sarno has to slap the **** out of both of you (except he won’t because he’s a nicer person than I am).
Edit: You don’t even have to agree with each other or value the other’s point of view.
I’m actually very willing to change my position in an actual discussion, we’ve had them. I don’t respond to threats though and find it funny when people want to be critical but not have their ideas criticized.
Grim dawn really wouldn’t be comparable with LE on release because it doesn’t have leagues. Leagues take large content patches to create and positive pushing of fresh development ideas very few months; that takes money arguably more then just one upfront cost of buying the game if you want to factor in future company growth and expanding their team.
LE payment method is going to be closer to POE in regards of how they want to release their content/type of content (from what i gather), just different in the context they want to make strictly optional good looking mlx for players who want to support the game further past the upfront cost and also get little bonus (looking good). There is nothing inherently wrong with that at all; you all make seem like such a big deal.
I love GD and Crate for their oldschool superfair monetization. No bullshit 5$ DLCs, just a base game and two huge oldfashioned expansions with a reasonable pricetag and a ton of 100% free big content patches. If there was a fairplay-award for game devs, Crate would deserve it imho.
However such fairness is not a given with b2p either (Paradox i’m looking at you). And, more importantly, a simple “buy once- play forever” model most likely doesn’t work for a game wich want’s to have seasons and regular content patches.
You might disagree with me here, but to me it seems like a plausible assumption, that when you as a player desire regular fresh content and dedicated online servers, you need to accept that the gamecompany wants regular income to guarantee sustainability.
As soon as one makes peace with that premise you can only choose one of a few evils: subscriptions, pay-per-league or mtx. (And p2win features oc, but i guess we don’t need to discuss those).
Unfortunately i have limited experience with any of these models. Admittedly i hate the way GGG has handled their mtx-system lately, creeping further and further into deceitful territory, where they create inconveniences for the player and then sell relief.
But that doesn’t mean it always has to turn out like that. I can imagine a fair mtx-system. If it was my game i’d make those shiny gearpieces cheap af and try to sell a metric f*ton of them. Because when a single mtx costs more than an entire game i’ll pass, but when it’s one buck or something along those lines per piece of gear, i will buy the shop empty, spend effectively more and feel good about it ^^.
One of the problems I see about MTX and cost is that people assume MTX’s can continue to come out and be developed for free if under a box price system. It seems unrealistic. Subscription based systems can do it because it helps retain paying customers. MTX fees work for an obvious reason. Under the box price system, where is the return for continual MTX creation?
I think people imagine a false choice. They see MTX’s in games as money grabs. They see the choice as MTXs each being priced individually or being included in initial fees. The REAL choice is MTXs each being priced individually or not having MTXs at all.
Once again, my choice will always be for a greater number of options.
I have no problem with the story; I even think that if used well, it can give immersion to the game and emotion to items and bosses. My problem is having to follow the same steps until the late game arrives, where then you will probably have a few different content options to explore. What I want is that once the main story of the game is completed by a character, this unlocked options on how to progress a new character to the end of the game. These options should not be a reformulation of acts, with an alternative history; but different contents that, in fact, make progression a little faster; and you can insert bonus information about the history of the game there. For example, Poe in every league inserts something new, however usually to release this content you have a dependence on making the game’s story … when you arrive at the late game and have enough resources to start another character, you still need to make the story of game to collect the skill points of the quests. Now think, if what interests me most is the new content, why don’t you give me the possibility to progress directly with this content? - at least from the second character? The big problem is that when you finish your first or second character, when you already have a good amount of rare items, when starting a new character the loot no longer matters, usually nothing you drop in low lvl areas will be useful, the story you already know, the steps you’ve already taken, the only thing that matters is to get a high level right away to see if the build will work and start enjoying the game challenging your build to complete the most difficult content, and because of that only the end of the process is satisfactory, so I usually give up on the idea of creating a new character. At least that’s my opinion on the subject, maybe I’m a dissatisfied minority .
