Ok so you clearly didn’t read my post for why this “smart decision” wasn’t a good idea.
You seem to forget my spamming of this season taking 9 months to come out.
Oh, it was read, just not agreed with 
Yes, PoE 2 is EA… so? The playerbase of PoE 1 having moved to play it is substantially bigger and highly overlapping with LE. So it doesn’t matter if it’s Alpha, Beta or 20 years out, people play it, period.
Yes, people can cover both games… content creators cannot reliably. That would screw up their metrics, metrics are their income, they need to stick to one. Also visibility is not as big hence. The smart choice would’ve been to stream PoE 2 formerly, with the delay it’s a viable outcome since they could be through the core advancement of PoE 2 completely by then.
Also rivaling games can do vastly more damage to LE if they want. But why should they? Competition in a weak position is the best thing any company can have. Free R&D for what works and doesn’t work.
As for the 9 months… yes… so since EHG already majorly screwed up it’s kinda hard to do it more anyway… we’re already disappointed, hard to disappoint further 
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Then I don’t see why EHG didn’t just delay it by 7 days then instead of 15. If you ask me, giving PoE2 5 days until LE’s update doesn’t sound like it will harm this game too much since that timeframe would also cover the weekend. You can argue that that’s still not enough time, but honestly, PoE2 is going to overshadow Last Epoch no matter what. It’s just one of many updates PoE2 will be getting til 1.0 anyway.
Like I said many times, this game’s update has taken almost a year to come out. The game is STILL not on its second season after 1 year since 1.0. So again, PoE2 is still not going to harm LE more than it already has. Not to mention, LE announced their date before PoE2 even released, so it makes no sense why they had to bend the knee like that when the playerbase is burned out already.
Yeah, but that’s the point. PoE 2 overshadows LE already… so a 2 week timeframe will at least cause the initial excitement - if the league is good - to fall off. Most strats will be uncovered, streamers have the end-game grind started, usually when second characters appear.
It’s a good timeframe for a new game to start and do something fresh as people have watched their fill to a degree as well.
In comparison in 1 week you have not enough time to get your build going yet to a decently high degree, which would cause the larger streamers to stay with the safer option and not giving LE itself a fighting chance at all. At least a chance is good, but it has a chance
And yes… yes if LE releases too close to PoE 2 it’s not only harming LE more… it might actually be one actual death sentence given how disastrous the release times and the perceived quality for a release product (1.0+) is for LE. They did a really risky move with prematurely going into 1.0 and are reeling still. It’s imagined it was monetary reasons (and not being completely inept) and hence another league crash has to be avoided as much as possible.
Small damage compared to big potential damage is simply the safer route.
If I didn’t imply it, I don’t disagree with the notion that the original release date being too close to PoE2’s would negatively impact the game. I also don’t disagree that the delay would give PoE2 its time to shine before LE comes in.
What I’m saying (again lol) is that we are already waiting 9 months for the update after waiting 5 months for season 1. This is despite saying that the seasons would be 3-4 months. So an extra 15 days is, IMO, just adding salt to the wound. If the first seasons are taking this long, then they truly released 1.0 far earlier than it needed to be.
I know I keep repeating these points, but I just don’t like that it’s taking this long. It really ruins the hype since no way season 2, despite looking promising, is going to make up the almost year long wait.
We all know this. Everyone here does.
And that is really something you’re going to have to come to grips with. Or not.
You don’t seem to be convincing anyone here.
So… what are you doing? Repeating the same stuff over and over again?
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Yes, but adding salt to the wound is better then calling a unreliable butcher and telling him to cut your leg off when he arrives… and then to wait if he arrives
That’s kinda the deal here.
Doomed if you do… doomed if you don’t.
They simply picked the less risky choice, but no matter what… all choices suck for EHG currently so it’s at least understandable despite not liking it.
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if I belived in everyone who said “this isn’t a smart descission!” I would’ve done a lot of bad descissions. From all my experince after yearss of gaming I can only come to one conclusion: This isn’t a big deal at all.
From my years of experince as a human interacting with others i get another conclusion: This is your oppinion and you should take a step back because it it is flawed and lacks any evidence. On top of it you start to look more and more like a troll to me and I’m done with this stupid discussion.
Feel free to remember this post and rubb it in my face if things go downhill because EHG made a rather smart move instead of fighting a fight they can only lose… no matter how well deserved a K.O. would be for GGG in this case.
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Delaying it by 15 days puts the launch at the start of the Easter Weekend. This is a 4 or 5 day weekend & the start of half term for a lot of countries. This maximises the amount of playtime players can look forward to for the start of Season 2.
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All I say is that, once again, this season is still coming out 9 months after a season that took 5 months to come out. The game is over a year old and it’s not even past its first season (we would be on either season 4 or even 6 but nope). Call it not a big deal all you want, but it just sets a bad precedent for the game and the developers, no matter how smart it was to not deal with a competitor.
But hey, I’m clearly a troll so what do I know?
Oh don’t worry. They already lost those players when they delayed the update to Q1… and then April.
Yes, I believe this is how games with seasonal models work. They leave after playing a game for a while & either doing everything they want to or getting bored or whatever then never coming back.
This os something that lots of people (including me at times) could do with remembering.
Is a fair point. But my kids are off from the 7th through 21st April, so it’ll also be towards the end of the easter holiday (not half term, that’s the shorter break in the middle of a term) for many.
I agree with the OP and sentiment.
I think the reason that so many people have been accepting of this issue, and supportive of EHG’s yet another delay, is because those people enjoy POE2 and LE. Or they just accept EHG’s reasoning, I guess.
But for those of us who don’t care for POE, this umpteenth delay is a slap in the face by EHG. I can’t pretend to understand EHG’s business, but I do understand many other businesses. And I would consider it bad business to sacrifice your core customers to a competitor. Sure EHG sees it as salvaging some of their fanbase, but if you don’t play POE then it’s a net-negative.
I’ve put up with many many issues in LE, and issues with EHG, but this is where I put my foot down. EHG should have stood their ground, for their fanbase. To me, this is the worst issue I’ve had with EHG, because I’ve been anxiously anticipating new content for my favourite game. But no, EHG wants me to wait patiently for 2 more weeks so that other folks can enjoy POE2? B.S.
I am quickly losing trust in this company. Their words, their plans, and their release dates no longer carry any weight with me. EHG says one thing, and does another. It’s a great way to delete a ton of customers from your revenue streams.
I’ve already been in limbo with the game, I started playing a bit again to prepare for Season 2 … But it feels mostly futile to put time into, because everything will change when Season 2 comes out. So I’m not really playing my favourite game, and then on top of that they delay it again … Who’s to say this new date means anything at all. Hopefully it’s the last delay but we’ll see.
I think that’s the thing, an unknowable % of their core customers are also customers of EHG, so it’s not like they’re “sacrificing” customers to a competitor.
Even if it was to the detriment of their company? Clearly they thought that it would be otherwise they wouldn’t have changed the dates.
Yeah & hopefully they’ll get back to the pre-0.9 cadence of 3ish months between content updates.
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Yes, agreed.
Better then the alternative.
The wrong time to put the foot down. This type of release date changing is mandatory and would’ve needed to be done even when LE had the best of standing comparatively.
This is a literal busines life-and-death situation for them, they can’t put it up against GGG, not sizeable enough and not long-lasting enough yet, also release quality being not overall at the same level… which hopefully will change swiftly as they progress and learn.
This action is for the fanbase as otherwise there would be a fanbase but no game likely in a short short time.
Absolutely is, concisive choices and sticking to them accordingly is not on of their strengths, the opposite. We see that with the quality of the Faction release, the handling of the old DR system and the core design philosophies behind it initially (overthrown by Boss Ward partially) as well as mastery respec.
In my opinion they got no clue why design philosophies are such an important aspect of game development yet… though… they’re clearly finding it out really quickly.
Maybe sacrifice was somewhat hyperbolic, another way I could’ve worded this was ‘impairing their customers’ or ‘to the detriment of their core customers’ or ‘hindering the customers who do not play POE2’
As somebody who doesn’t enjoy POE2, this delay is a net-negative to me.
I don’t dispute that EHG thought this was the right move, I just disagree with it. I’m not pretending to understand their business. But clearly they value the multi-ARPG-enjoyer more than the fans who only play LE. And that’s probably, financially, the right move for them. But it seriously pisses me off to have to have another delay - we’re sitting at almost a year since the last ‘season’. It’s like saying ‘sorry core LE enjoyers, we need to please the POE2 players more than you’ - which, again, may make sense to them as EHG, the company, the business, but it’s no less insulting either way. “We have to allow people to play the bigger game, before you can enjoy your game, sorry not sorry” - EHG
Again, I’m just at the point where I see no value in EHG’s words anymore… Promises made, but not kept. I guess that’s the price of doing business.
I don’t think this is fair, for the simple reason that the people that only play LE are a small number, as can be seen by the fact that their long-time playerbase is much lower than PoE’s, for example.
Other than people coming back a bit now because of the announcements, LE had 2k players for a long time. PoE usually clocks at 10k. Neither game can really survive with just those players.
So for both GGG and EHG, the playerbase that allows the game to survive is one that plays several games at once and they need to take that into account.
This is also true for any game company that isn’t one of the top dogs (and sometimes even those). There were several games that got release dates delayed (including PoE1) when Cyberpunk was released. Same happened with BG3 release. And Starfield.
This is not because those companies don’t respect their fans but rather because they would rather stay “alive” to make more games/content to those fans.
So it’s not so much EHG going “Should we please the LE-exclusive playerbase or the multi-ARPG playerbase” but more “Should we please the LE-exclusive playerbase and go bankrupt or should we try to please the majority and keep making content”?
And, for context, while I kinda like PoE2, I have no intention of playing this new patch. So while I’m a little bummed out to wait 2 more weeks, I’d rather wait that time than have season 2 weeks earlier but there not existing a season 3.
However, one could argue that flexibility & a willingness to react to changes in the market place and not dogmatically stick to their original view point is a good thing. Or at least, it has its benefits.
Just because a person disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re an idiot. This applies to developers as much as armchair developers…
Every choice they make will benefit some section of their playerbase & be to the detriment of another section. Them pushing back the release benefits those who do play PoE 2 & you (& I & likely EHG) have no idea how big a segment that is. Anyone outside of EHG who says otherwise is a liar.
Fair enough, as is your right.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, that’s fair enough.
And I think that’s your anger/disappointment speaking. I have no doubt that EHG are sorry that they’ve had to push the release date back & I’m sure they discussed it a lot internally. I’ve had a fair bit of contact with EHG & I know they aren’t a bunch of corporate arsehats that only care about their metrics/KPIs.
I do also find it rather amusing when players (not you) assume that a company is either rolling in cash Scrooge McDuck style or imminently in danger of going under & setting the entire world on fire as they do it despite having zero knowledge of the details.
To be fair, we have no idea of the real financial impact of GGG’s release date on EHG’s previous date, so we cannot assume that they would’ve gone bankrupt … That’s an assumption that’s not based on any evidence. Obviously it was significant enough of a financial impact for EHG to move the date back, yet again, but we can’t assume bankruptcy would have been an outcome. Maybe it could have been an outcome, but I wouldn’t assume that.
Chris Wilson has been quoted as saying that “A game can survive with as little as 10k regular players”
In conclusion though, my stance is an emotional one so I’m not really interested in having a lot of back-and-forth about it. I appreciate the replies from @DJSamhein & @Llama8 but ultimately I just wanted to post support for OP, because EHG should know that customers like me are losing trust and interest in their product because of these antics and delays.
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