How to improve Monolith Of Fate Endgame System [0.7.10c]

[Heavy]

@Tibone

● Continue after boss. But every few echoes get the quests and bosses again to keep things spiced up.

● Have the option to every time you kill the boss again to be able to ean a higher chance at a better roll for your blessings. And magic find for loot so it feels more rewarding to farm.

@boardman21

Feel’s Bad Man when you defeat the boss and the timeline just resets and you lose your entire streak. Definitely would like the timeline to continue and only reset either when you chose to or when you die.

Not sure about this. I really like having to choose between farming boss or wanting to reach high echoes for just overall more items.
The current system needed to be adjusted to make such suggestion work IMO.
Depending on how many echoes you need to do to re-encounter a boss echo, it sounds way to easy to reroll blessings.
Having to “complete” and finish a timeline by killing the boss leading to reseting the timeline has ups and downs.

I think what would be more fun is having certain “thresholds” giving extra bonuses when defeating the boss above Echo No. X, there could be multiple thresholds increasing the boss specific loot and/or generally leading to more statisfying lootplosions.

But timelines resetting after boss kills is not a bad system IMO, because with your suggestion you would only go on and on and on and on. Players having to make a deliberate choice if they want to kill the boss or not is good.

But together with the suggestions of @XLVI_carpo

@XLVI_carpo

There are only 2 choices and it can take a lot of time until you encounter a good challenge.
Would be cool to be able to add more modifiers instantly.

This could lead to being able to ramp up a “new fresh” timeline faster, especially after killing the boss.

Potentially only allow this, if you have beat a given timeline once already.

@Tibone

●Give more exp. That way it is a viable way to level once in monoliths.

This sounds like MoF is not a good way for leveling. I disagree, the leveling pace in MoF is great IMO.
I think this is more of a problem, that arena gives way too much exp/time.

@boardman21

Empowered timelines having 3 unique modifiers added to them at the beginning of the timeline. These unique modifiers would pool from a separate pool of modifiers such as but not limited to:

Your suggestions is great, but sounds more like a 3rd difficulty.

I think having all the non-lvl 100 timeliens available in a “basic” lvl 100 version with appropriate scaling (like the suggestions i did) is already a good step to give all the timelines a “endgameworthy” farming state.

What you did suggest are really cool modifiers, that alter the way you play. But i think this could be a even “higher” Timeline difficulty. Maybe unlocking after beating a empowered timeline.

@boardman21

Hybrid Blessings

All of those suggestions are great. I really like trade-offs for great power.
If we get more timelines in the future i think this modifiers are a great place for some timelines, not sure if those modifiers should exist on each timeline. Because i think there are alot of people disliking negatives in itemization.

@boardman21

New Features

I really like the random npc’s/vendor suggestions

The Crafting Thing i am not so sure about. We probably need to see what Eternity Caches will be, but having to hold back on items with crafting untilk you encounter such shop would not feel good to me.

@boardman21

Will MoF be intertwined with other endgame systems? Will this make MoF more interesting?

@boardman21

Echo Time rifts insides echoes that take you an echo in an echo (New maps/mobs/Uniques) are located inside the echo time rifts and can only be obtained there, these rifts can appear at anytime on any timeline.

We don’t know much yet, but this sounds strongly like Epoch’s Call endgame system. But we will have to wait and see.

I am sure we will get more timelines eventually and from the sound of it, all the endgame system that are currently not implemented will be linked somehow.

[boardman21]

@Heavy

Not sure about this. I really like having to choose between farming boss or wanting to reach high echoes for just overall more items.

If they just added the quest in a seperate option slot id be ok with the current setup.

If the made it so you cam continue after you defeat boss but no more boss show up id be ok with it. Either way id settle for it

[Shrukn]

@boardman21

• You can no longer use movement skills
• You deal 25% less damage while wielding a 2 handed weapon
• All Skills now have 1 addition second Cooldown
• All Skills cost 25% more mana

No thanks

Ive had plenty of ideas for this game but not right now. I can only tell you what I don’t want and anything that lowers build diversity even further can go away, especially anything related to Mana
The only idea I have is-

• Remove the Forges // Spires and only have bosses - these just suck and are so boring to deal with…or at least buff the Forges to be faster and less obstructive

• Monoliths cannot be finished until you kill a minimum % of mobs - no just running to the exit

• Monoliths should allow a risky version where if you die you lose all progress whether at M1 or the actual boss - the reward is you get to choose the blessing

Some of the ideas are just weird ive read such as -

@boardman21

Shrines need to have more options and have negative options

Err then people just wont click on them unless they spawn monsters

[boardman21]

@Shrukn

Err then people just wont click on them unless they spawn monsters

Thats why i also added right below that quote that shrines bo longer tell you what they are its a click on at your own. risk

[Tibone]

@Heavy

Not sure about this. I really like having to choose between farming boss or wanting to reach high echoes for just overall more items.

Why not have the option to do both?

[Llama8]

Surely you do already by not taking the one that takes you to the boss? Though I agree it would be nice to not have to loose your progress. Maybe have that as an option on Empowered monoliths?

[Tibone]

@Heavy

This sounds like MoF is not a good way for leveling.

It isn’t even if arena didn’t give as much experience, you get more exp for level scaling.

If I had to just level through monoliths I would tear.my eyes out bc it would take forever

[Tibone]

I am agree I mean for empowered monoliths regular monoliths are fine how they are just give exp boost.

I should probably make that clearer above

[Heavy]

@Tibone

Why not have the option to do both?

Because, when you always can have both without thinking it does not become a player choice. And player choice during endgame to prioritize certain things is always welcomed. Maybe this gets better once we get other endgame modes, but currently with it would be bad to be able to always take bosses and not lose progress. IMO

@Tibone

If I had to just level through monoliths I would tear.my eyes out bc it would take forever

I literally level all my characters with MoF, i didn’t played arena for more than my very first or two chars for like 50 waves maximum, after that i never thouched arena again.

And i still have my sanity and the leveling pace/time needed to reach level milestones felt great.

[Tibone]

@Heavy

Because, when you always can have both without thinking it does not become a player choice. And player choice during endgame to prioritize certain things is always welcomed.

You can have the choice to skip and continue or farm the bosses as you go up with harder modifiers. and reap better rewards for doing so. Or just skip them till ready and do echoes. that doesn’t seem that hard to me and also give you a choice for rewards or not.

@Heavy

I literally level all my characters with MoF, i didn’t played arena for more than my very first or two chars for like 50 waves maximum, after that i never thouched arena again.

And i still have my sanity and the leveling pace/time needed to reach level milestones felt great.

So the fact that I can do empowered monoliths in my 80’s is good leveling?

[Heavy]

@Tibone

So the fact that I can do empowered monoliths in my 80’s is good leveling?

In the current system, i do believe having to do the same timeline multiple times is ok for progress. This will most likely change slightly, in case we get more timelines. (Especially ones that are not lvl 100)

So being ahead of the level of timeliens is ok, if you build is good enough for it.
Empowered Timelines are a bit too easy, as i already mentioned in my OP.

@Tibone

You can have the choice to skip and continue or farm the bosses as you go up with harder modifiers.

Not sure, i did understand that with your suggestion, you would be able to go up echoes, doing a boss and continue to do echoes and eventually encounter a the boss again.

This will lead to taking the boss when ever available.

[Tibone]

Keep in mind this os all for empowered not regular.

Keep doing the echoes, do the quests and kill the boss, still be able to progress with echoes instead of being wiped.
continue to get quests and bosses and kill them for higher chance to roll better rewards/ blessing ranges. till you get to a point to where you can no longer continue and I dio think there should be a suto barrier for you build that you can not progress futher without becoming more powerful. and eventually not at all.

Make more sense?

[Heavy]

I would rather keep the old system, where the boss kill resets the timeline, but maybe give higher echo numbers powerful buffs to possible boss drops.

Like the boss has higher chances to drop their specific gear, that is more rare(one of the boss specific drops is always very much rarer than others)

I feel like working towards the goal of beating the boss ONCE, in an appropiate but rewarding difficulty feels better.

[Llama8]

Hence my comment about having it as an option for Empowered Monoliths.

[Heavy]

Not sure if empowered and normal timelines should have such different mechanics/appraoches.

Having the same base mechanic, but with increased appropiate scaling and new reward pool sounds enough to me.

And as i already pointed out earlier, the suggestion RAW did, would very nicely fit in with, where you would be able to ramp up difficulty faster, when you already completed a given timeline.

That way resetting would not feel that bad.

[Llama8]

Why not? The lvl 100 monolith already does not have the “rare enemies …” modifiers, I assume that it would be the same for the Empowered monoliths (since they are also lvl 100). If the Empowered monoliths don’t have something extra (other than just +25% effect) then they’ll be boring. And this would hardly be a mechanical difference, just a quick popup after the boss dies “do you wish to reset this monolith?”.

[Heavy]

I don’t want empowered monolith to be much more than just a scaled up version.

Having things like new loot tables(which is the case already) is alredy a good thing.
Maybe certain new modifiers, just being able to occur in empowered timeliens is also ok.

But i am still not sold on the “I can farm the boss while continueing to push echoes” thing.

[Tibone]

@Heavy

I don’t want empowered monolith to be much more than just a scaled up version.

Most people do though have to differentiate it rather than just make is stronger make people enjoy doing it over and over

[TrandelElent]

There is a lot here that I can totally agree with. There are a few items though that I would also totally disagree with lol.

@boardman21

You can no longer use movement skills

Unless there is some way to reroll a mod like this then I would have to say this is DOA for me. The way skills are kinda locked down atm all it would take is one bad roll like this in an MoF to completely hose someone for a build they worked hard on without anyway at all to remedy it. While I agree that we shouldn’t be able to respecc skills whenever we want for free, I still think the way the system is set up at the moment is way too restrictive and punishing for anyone that likes to tinker and experiment with builds. Anything else that would further restrict theory-crafting would be a no go for me.

@boardman21

• Kill X number of a specific type of mob to finish
• Kill all rares on map
• Open all treasure chest to finish

There are already a few quests like this in some of the areas where you have to kill certain mobs if I am correct. All of these others here start to feel like generic fetch and kill quests from an MMORPG. It’s not really much fun there, I don’t expect it to be any different in an ARPG. Once we get multiplayer I would like to see something maybe geared towards group play. Maybe something resembling a dungeon with multiple bosses with actual mechanics besides just dodge this or that skill/bad thing on the ground and dps them down.

Other than that there are a lot of good ideas here. The only other thing I could think of would be to possibly allow MoF to be another option for leveling new alts. If not MoF then some other gameplay mode is needed for sure. I know other streamers I have discussed this with disagree with that opinion but as long as it’s an option and not something anyone is FORCED to do then I can only see it as a plus. After leveling 4 different alts I for one am already kinda burnt out on the storyline. And before anyone says it, if you would enjoy nothing more than to spend your time replaying the story over and over and over again, that’s awesome and I am sincerely happy for you. Unfortunately, LE wasn’t made just for you, or me, or any one particular person. If we want this game and this community to grow around it we need to find ways to bring more people to it. And I can guarantee that for every one player that will just replay the story nonstop there are two that will be turned off by having to replay the same content over and over again just to try new classes. We need to work together and with the devs to find more options and more content to help the game and community grow, not ways to restrict it.

And in the end, all of this is just my humble opinion. Thanks for reading.

[boardman21]

@TrandelElent

The only other thing I could think of would be to possibly allow MoF to be another option for leveling new alts.

I think that it would be totally awesome if some timelines were added say at

• Level 10
• Level 25
• Level 40
• These lower timelines would only be available to your alts once you had completed the campaign on at least 1 character.
• If only completely the story 1 time is considered not enough we could also limit it so that you had to complete the story with each different class 1 time to unlock it for that class so a total of 5 campaigns would need to be done so that all 5 of your classes could runs alts in the MoF instead of Story. What i mean by this is once you do campaign once with primalist all primalist alts can skip it and so fourth for the other classes.
• Since there are passive points inside the campaign would have to find a way for alts that want to do MoF instead of Campaign to be able to get them or just make them go without but this wouldn’t be fun and basically makes every character need to do campaign to maximize.

Just some quick thoughts.