That’s good to know, so I don’t lose my sleep trying.
I actually like that they dont want an AFK playstyle. I just hope it is viable enough to function as an “support role” playstyle with the new shield. Next to a main damage skill for example.
I also don’t understand why this style of play is needed and how to balance it.
The only + is an interesting implementation that I have come across, it was in D2, the curse of the “iron maiden”, but it works for practicing the Pets.
Basically, this is just another offensive skill, and an active one.
But the “thorns” of the paladin (still from d2), disgusting mechanics. Its sole purpose, in my opinion, is to be a content filler. They won’t use it, but let it be.
I could understand not wanting there to be passive builds such as “Thorns” in the game, but that makes having the affixes available really strange - why even offer it if they do not want it and won’t be supporting it?
Knowing that this has been something that has already been confirmed makes these affixes pollute the drop pool.
I suppose once the new crafting update comes out I will have to re-craft without these reflect affixes - they are too weak to even be considered in their current state, they don’t scale well at all.
Edit:
Upon further considering this reasoning… I fail to see how this logic can even be applied when there is a necromancer class in the game whose sole purpose is to passively be doing nothing while everything dies…
2 Likes
What’s the problem with making Reflect perfect viable [strong enough] and adding a small cooldown [or how about every third hit or something] for it?
→ You could use it to break up individual enemies into groups and add another noticeable “blow” here and there on bosses.
I would run Reflect on the side in this way [see above] for some builds. It would have something like “Sentinel → Counter Attack” or “Vengeance → Riposte”.
+1 → I would say then.
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I actually like the way Grim Dawn handled thorns/retaliation. When they added the Oathkeeper class, they put some abilities that add a percent of your thorns/retaliation damage to the attack. The Oathkeepers shield throw skill can get up to 30% of your retaliation damage added to the skills damage. They did that to make retaliation builds more active. They also had it so retaliation only works against melee attacks (they have to be in range to get the damage put back on them), so the ranged shield throw was a way for you to hit far away enemies and still have a use for the retaliation.
It was a lot of fun to play.
On EHG not wanting the afk playstyle. I would just point out that if it were done like Grim Dawn did it, it is more an active playstyle than Warpath.
If EHG is truly afraid of Thorns becoming an AFK passive build and their goal is for active gameplay, then Reflect should really be removed and replaced with a new mechanic.
A proposition could be to change “Thorns” and “Percent Damage Reflected” to a new mechanic called “Shatter”; “Shatter” would function similar to “Armour Shred”:
Summary
Thorns
Shatter enemies for (x) when attacked.
Percent Damage Shattered
Shatter enemies for (x) when attacked.
Increase Shatter Effectiveness by (X)%.
- When an enemy becomes “Shattered”, the next attack they take is increased by (x)
- Shatters stack additively and the stacks are cumulative (all consumed on next hit)
- Shatter Effectiveness offers multiplicative scaling for Shatter
This change would meet the goal of making “thorns” builds more active, while also making it more cooperative friendly since all party members could take advantage of a Shattered enemy.
2 Likes
Karate do, Yes. OK.
Karate do, No. OK.
Karate do, I don’t know - squish like grape.
~ Mr. Miyagi
It literally makes no sense to say: “We don’t want you to be able to make a build on (Mechanic X) so we went out of our way to design, code and release (Mechanic X) into the game. Please enjoy (Mechanic X) by not using it in any meaningful way.”
5 Likes
Preach it.
The simple fix to that is to make thorns not work with range/spell damage. So thorns is at least a semi-viable dps source, but must still be augmented with a traditional source to really function. This would prevent invulnerable tanks who can thorn anything to death without fear.
Hmm i agree, thats actually strange. Remove it from the game or make it viable enough so we dont have to put time in something that is intended to not work optimal.
I do hate afk playstyles so i still like that EHG is going for a more active playstyle. I just hope they will treat necro summoners the same way…
I thought this was true about flat damage reflected, but not percent damage. Can anyone confirm/deny this, please?
Flat damage reflect is flat. It doesn’t have anything to do with how much you take from the hit before or after mitigation.
I have been trying (and failing) to make a Reflect Build since I bought the game. Even now with Flat Reflect available on Chest, Shield + Belt (plus Legendary items granting extra flat on the chest + shield), there just isn’t enough to be viable. So, you have to dip into “% reflected”, and that falls on its face quickly. I’m trying a few theorycraft builds where you don’t mitigate damage yet somehow you don’t die, but they are really niche and I have no idea how high they can go re: empowered, corruption, arena, etc. Likely not that high.
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Yea, I can’t see % reflect working under any circumstance. It is first mitigated by what the player has, then you deal a % of that back, then it is mitigated by whatever the mob has.
Then take into consideration that monster damage/health ratio seems inverted to players (monsters have high health and low damage).
Flat damage reflect could work, but it probably won’t. Will have to see the kind of numbers the new druid gets. Like I said, at current, very high rolls with legendary combinations of flat reflect (and 100 attunement) still just gets you close to 2800 damage reflected. That is probably okay for trash, but is pretty weak for bosses. At least flat reflect still lets you mitigate incoming damage.
What needs to happen is an attack skill that adds a percentage of your flat reflect damage to its damage. That way your reflect can scale the damage of your attack.
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Just wait till you see 0.8.4 and Thorn Shield.
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Do modifiers that just say “increased damage” without any qualifiers (e.g. empowering sigils from sigils of hope skill) work to increase the damage of % and flat relected damage? Or how about “increased minion damage” when your minion has reflect? Thanks!
Increased to damage you take increase reflected damage in a round about way.
Manifest armor can take quite a bitch of extra damage and reflect 40% of it.
The question is , if a hit deals more than max go is the overflow reflected ? I assume yes.
If something one-shots you (or your minion)? It’d be capped at the HP that was lost since that’s how % reflect works (after mitigation). Leech is certainly capped at the amount of HP a target has (ignoring the overkill leech on the unique).
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