Grinding isn't the problem, RNG is... and one-shots aren't difficulty

I’m currently playing at around 500 Corruption, and after several seasons, I feel like some of Last Epoch’s fundamental problems are still exactly the same.

I’m not talking about a character built entirely around damage and then complaining about dying.

My character has two Red Rings, around 20% less damage taken, roughly 5,000 Armor, 75% to all resistances, and permanently maintains around 5,000 to 6,000 Ward. I’ve also taken pretty much every relevant source of “less damage taken” available through my skill trees and abilities.

Despite all of that, at around 500 Corruption, I can go through three or four maps tanking pretty much everything the game throws at me without really seeing my Ward move.

I can run through huge packs of monsters, tank the new seasonal mechanic, and constantly feel like my character is extremely durable.

Then, three or four maps later, I run into a Champion.

And suddenly, it’s the complete opposite.

There’s a complete mess of visual effects, multiple AoEs appearing on the ground, abilities overlapping each other and becoming extremely difficult to read, and then suddenly I go from 5,000–6,000 Ward to instantly dead.

Very often, I don’t even know which attack killed me.

And that’s what bothers me.

At 500 Corruption, I think it’s perfectly normal for the game to become dangerous and for mistakes to be heavily punished.

I have absolutely no problem with Champions being a serious threat.

But there’s something extremely strange about being able to tank almost everything the game throws at you for several maps, only to suddenly get instantly deleted by a Champion in the middle of a pile of overlapping effects and barely readable AoEs.

It creates this weird situation where all the defenses you’ve stacked feel extremely effective for 99% of the content, until suddenly they feel like they don’t exist anymore.

I don’t think a random Champion encountered in a map should sometimes feel more dangerous than certain bosses.

And separately from that problem, there are still monsters capable of attacking you from literally one or two screens away.

And when I say off-screen, I don’t mean an enemy sitting just at the edge of my screen.

There are situations where I genuinely have to travel one or even two full screens just to find the mob that keeps spawning abilities directly underneath my character.

So I’m being attacked by something I can’t see, can’t immediately identify, and sometimes can’t even reasonably know where it is.

And this becomes even more ridiculous when you’re simply trying to interact with certain game mechanics.

Nemesis is probably the best example.

The mechanic literally requires you to stop.

You open an interface, look at the items, compare your options, and potentially put a Unique inside to try to get Legendary Potential.

But while you’re doing all of that, the game keeps running normally.

So even after clearing the entire area around the Nemesis, some mob sitting one or two screens away can still keep spawning attacks directly underneath your character while you’re simply trying to read the interface.

The solution ends up being to clear an absurdly large area around every interactive mechanic just so you can use it in peace.

I find that particularly strange in a game that regularly asks you to stop, read, compare things, or make a decision.

That’s not really challenging. It’s mostly frustrating.

And that brings me to a more general problem I currently have with Last Epoch: progression.

I love having to farm and gradually optimize a character. That’s literally why I play ARPGs.

I know perfectly well that you don’t need 3 LP or 4 LP items everywhere to play the game. With the right character, the right build, and some good 1 LP or 2 LP items, you can already go extremely far.

But that’s not really what I’m looking for in an ARPG.

What I enjoy is grinding a ridiculous amount to progressively push my character until I end up with completely insane gear.

And I have absolutely no problem with that taking an enormous amount of time.

The problem is that after several seasons, I increasingly feel like Last Epoch sometimes confuses progression with stacking more and more random systems on top of each other.

Every season, we get a new mechanic.

The presentation changes, the rewards change, the monsters change, and sometimes the way you interact with the mechanic changes.

But very often, the fundamental loop remains extremely similar:

Do the mechanic → hope for the right result → get nothing → repeat.

Then another mechanic gets added and gives you another way to pull the lever on the slot machine.

And this becomes especially obvious when you look at the actual process required to create one really good item.

Let’s take a Unique that you want to turn into a really good Legendary.

The first step is simply getting that Unique.

Depending on the item, you can already spend a huge amount of time farming it.

Then it finally drops.

Jackpot.

You finally have your Unique.

Except it can drop with 0 LP.

Now, yes, Last Epoch currently has several different mechanics that let you try to recover from that situation, and I think it’s great that those options exist.

You can use Nemesis or other systems to take that Unique and try to improve it.

But the problem is that these mechanics don’t actually remove the slot machine.

They mostly allow you to pull the lever again.

The result can be amazing.

Or it can be completely useless.

You might manage to get LP, or you might end up with a result that does absolutely nothing for your build, including LP that’s already been consumed by something you don’t even want.

There are also other options, including Weaver Cores and their associated mechanics, that allow you to take certain items and try to improve their Legendary Potential.

But once again, the result is random.

Your 0 LP item can stay at 0 LP.

It can go up.

With enough luck, it can potentially become a 2 LP or 3 LP item.

So yes, the game gives you more ways to fight against a bad initial outcome.

But those options are themselves jackpots.

You won once by getting your Unique.

Now you’re using that Unique to try to win a second time and get the LP you’re looking for.

And let’s say you succeed.

You finally have your rare Unique with the 2 LP or 3 LP you wanted.

Huge jackpot.

But your item still isn’t finished.

Now you need to farm the Exalted item you’re going to put into it.

And obviously, if you just spent that much time getting a rare 2 LP or 3 LP Unique, you’re not going to sacrifice the first mediocre Exalted item that drops.

You need the right base.

The right T7.

The right affixes around it.

And let’s not even start talking about double or triple T7s.

So you go back to farming.

Then eventually, after enough time, your Exalted item drops.

Another jackpot.

But even that Exalted item isn’t necessarily ready.

You may still need to work on its other affixes, with Forging Potential limiting how many modifications you can make.

And once again, you can find an amazing base, start working on it, and then run out of Forging Potential before you’ve managed to get exactly what you wanted.

So you can still lose your jackpot during the preparation process.

But let’s say everything works.

You have your Unique.

You have its LP.

You have your Exalted item.

You have your T7.

You have the affixes you want.

Your crafting went well.

After potentially dozens of hours, you finally have all the pieces you need.

And now comes the Legendary Craft.

The final slot machine.

If your Unique has less LP than your Exalted item has affixes, you still need the correct affixes to be selected.

So even after beating the RNG at every previous step, you still need to win one more time.

And if the wrong affixes transfer?

Trash.

Your Unique is used.

Your Exalted item is used.

Your Legendary is created.

And the item you potentially spent dozens of hours working toward isn’t what you wanted.

You can’t simply dump a huge amount of additional resources into it to gradually fix the result.

You lost the final roll.

Back to the beginning.

And that’s my real problem with Last Epoch’s gearing.

It isn’t:

“I want less RNG.”

This is an ARPG.

I want to grind.

I want the best items to be extremely rare.

I want to be able to spend an unreasonable amount of time optimizing my character.

My problem is more:

“How many times do I have to win the lottery before the game finally considers that I’ve actually obtained my item?”

Because here, you don’t simply win one extremely rare jackpot.

You win a jackpot that gives you access to the next one.

Unique → jackpot.

LP → jackpot.

Exalted → jackpot.

T7 and the right affixes → jackpot.

Preparing it with Forging Potential → more RNG.

Legendary Craft → another jackpot.

And if you fail late enough in that chain, several of the jackpots you already won end up meaning nothing for the goal you were pursuing.

And this is where I find the comparison with Path of Exile interesting.

In PoE, when you’re trying to craft a truly powerful item, there’s also a massive amount of RNG involved.

I’m absolutely not claiming that crafting in PoE is easy, or that an item can always be saved.

But in many situations, you can build your craft step by step.

You can secure certain affixes.

You can guarantee certain steps.

Sometimes you can go back or continue working on your craft after a bad result.

And very often, that extra level of control is extremely expensive.

But that’s exactly the point: it costs resources.

And you get those resources by playing the game.

That’s the fundamental difference for me.

In PoE, your playtime can gradually become a way to reduce some of the RNG.

The more you farm, the more resources you accumulate.

And the more resources you accumulate, the more you can invest into protecting certain stages of your craft, guaranteeing certain outcomes, or simply giving yourself additional attempts without necessarily throwing away everything you’ve already built.

You don’t remove the grind.

You don’t remove the RNG.

You gradually turn part of your grind into control over the RNG.

And that’s something I really miss in Last Epoch.

Because even the mechanics that have been added to help you deal with bad outcomes often feel like another way of pulling the slot machine lever.

Nemesis gives you another chance.

The mechanics around LP give you another chance.

Crafting gives you another chance.

But at a certain level of investment, I’d like my playtime to also allow me to secure more of what I’ve already achieved.

I’m not asking for a perfect 4 LP item to be easy to obtain.

I’m not asking for four perfect affixes to be guaranteed.

I’m not asking for completely insane items to be easy to craft.

I specifically want to grind for those things.

But I’d like that grind to progressively build the item rather than mostly buying me more attempts.

Because there’s a huge difference between farming for 100 hours to progressively build something incredible and farming for 100 hours to repeatedly earn the right to try to build something incredible.

And I think that’s also why my feelings about Last Epoch have changed so much over the seasons.

The first time I played the game, I found a lot of these systems genuinely interesting.

There was so much to discover.

Crafting, Exalted items, LP, Legendaries, all the different mechanics…

But the more I replay the game, the more I start seeing the same fundamental loop behind many of these systems:

You farm to earn an attempt.

You try.

You succeed or you fail.

And if you fail, you go back to farming to earn another attempt.

After a while, that feeling of progression gets replaced more and more by the feeling of constantly playing a slot machine.

And that’s a shame, because I think Last Epoch has a lot of genuinely great ideas.

Legendary Potential is a great idea.

Being able to revisit certain Uniques through different mechanics is a great idea.

The Exalted system is a great idea.

I wouldn’t want any of these systems removed.

I’d simply like them to be connected by a stronger sense of progression, where a player’s massive investment can gradually reduce some of those layers of randomness.

Not to make the game easier.

Not to guarantee the best items.

But so that after investing an enormous amount of time, I can genuinely feel:

“I’m getting closer to my item.”

Rather than:

“I’m getting closer to my next attempt.”

Because to me, there’s a fundamental difference between grinding for a long time to win an incredibly rare jackpot and grinding for a long time to win a jackpot that simply gives you access to the next jackpot.

PS: And then there’s Corruption, which is another jackpot. So… yeah.

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Dude, ChatGPT doesn’t work for writing forum posts. It’s way too long-winded and it writes as if the fate of humanity hinges on its next phrase.

You really should edit your post and remove around 75% of it.

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I don’t speak English, so I used ChatGPT to translate my feedback. I’m not sure why that’s a problem. Should I just not share my opinion because I never had the opportunity to learn English?

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It is important for you to understand that the character stats you listed aren’t particularly tanky. On top of that, don’t expect to be able to hit a gear point where you can stand in front of a dangerous monster and ignore its mechanics. Very few builds can get tanky enough to allow that to happen. This is by design. What you are doing is dying to telegraphed attacks from hero or boss monsters. Which is generally going to go bad for you.

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You need to reformat your thoughts into cohesive paragraphs. Try breaking things down into 5 to 7 sentence paragraphs. As written your feedback is projecting a tone that is both terse and muddled. It makes trying to read what you wrote a headache.

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ChatGPT is a very poor translator. What you have written is almost unintelligible. It would need a lot of editing to become coherent.

I would certainly agree at least on the topic of rng to get your gear in LE. You cannot craft infinetely on a single item, and the odds to get desired affix combination on desired item base are abysmal. Forging potential system was kinda working only while you could only manipulate affixes a bit. But when each season adds another crafting layer on top of limited system, with very limited supply of items that worth crafting (for player’s actual build, not from trading perspective - it’s another nightmare), this system simply can’t hold anymore. Something about itemization should be changed. Most players got used to be able to craft perfect/near perfect gear from PoE, may be slowly sometimes, but steadily. But here gearing became a slot machine, that requires you to hit jackpot 10 times in a row for a single upgrade.
I just imagined PoE having limited crafting attempts per gear piece xD What a failure would that be.

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The RNG slot machine problem is real, and it’s exactly what kills my motivation every season. I always end up reaching a point where I simply don’t want to keep playing anymore. There’s nothing fun about grinding for days to find the perfect Exalted item, only to watch a craft burn through 16 Forging Potential twice in a row or worse, hand a Unique I spent two or three days farming over to a Nemesis and have it completely ruined. At that point, the time you invested stops feeling like progress and starts feeling like you’re just paying for another spin.

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Absolutely.

The game is a mega-sized slot machine.

And there are certain mechanics which not only can add undesired “buffs” (which would still technically be an improvement), they can absolutely brick something. Right at the end of the RNG game.

And I have a suspicious feeling this cricking is weighted. I tried corrupting uniques/legendary, and would you look at that, Red Rings get bricked a lot more often than a Transcriber’s Graver, for example.

Logged in to see what’s what. This frost/blood thing, it’s again a slot machine, even more infuriating. One would expect sacrificing a 2xT7 to net other items, but at least keep the damn tiers on the exalted. You take a chance on the type of the items, the affixes etc. Same for a legendary, get a 2LP legendary, you’d expect to sacrifice it and get some multi T7 affix exalted or other 2LP legendaries, or at least rarer LP1.

The other issue, that for some stuff like auto-pick shards, the devs “want you to stop”, as if they’re not currency - which at the end of the day only gets you killed because you click on them by mistake and pick them up instead of moving towards where you clicked - but the issue of interacting with various mechanics (Nemesis) is real. That gets you killed more often unless you go out of your way to clear a large area.

An not least, the devs seem hell bent on not touching the “flavor of the season” builds, broken insane builds, but then nerf some of the builds which offer an alternative (yet don’t go into the insane OP zone).

I really don’t think i’ll be playing much this season.

As you said, the lack or mechanisms to trade grind time for progression (which would put emphasis on efficient, smart grinding) and instead putting the emphasis on layers upon layers of slot machines where you can also lose everything, is a huge red flag for me.

Feel like Tik Tok design, just for ARPGs.

ETA: It feels such a shame that instead of centering all their game around the really good crafting system, they instead chose the lazy way. They could have integrated everything in the crafting system - and make sure (if they insist on the mechanism) that if you have a way of bricking an item, you could also earn some sort of “rollback” rune or whatever, for example.

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EHG has bigger fish to fry with server issues and stutters… I’d feel way better grinding both LPs and exalts while not fighting the game code and memory leaks. And I like grinding, a lot. You can check my profile on letools:P

Forging Potential and similarity of mechanics (of both uber bosses and out in the wild echo stuff) will eventually run it all into the ground - FP is just bad and you can feel it when crafting on Frozen Potential items. Even then you need very precise knowledge and a certain amount of Redemption luck to hit anything. I’ve come to agree with some other people saying you want double T7, then you just craft the affixes that you want/need and Havoc the sevens onto them. Mindlessly spamming Redemptions is just awful, no amount of GoH or FP procs is going so save it. Then we have uber bosses - with insane area denial in last phases. It’s practically suicide if you don’t have like 120k EHP immortal build going for you (or can do certain instagib shenanigans, that somehow made it past QA). I don’t know how y’all HC folks kill them, huge respect if you do.

Otherwise LE is just yk a typical ARPG - quantity over quality farms are your bread and butter. And speed. People going nuts over not dropping triple-quad T7s have probably never played D2 or something… where you can go several full days without anything worthwhile, just to get that dopamine boulder hit you right into the face eventually.

I sincerely hope the LE:O is going to fix the majority of the technical issues. Time will tell;) Don’t let that bag go to waste EHG, and pls fix the stash scramble with items sticking to cursor. Purty pls. Over and out.

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You have hit the nail on the head with all of your points.

  1. I agree about the large aggro range of the enemies that you can’t see from across the screen and how it effects interacting with the mechanics, such as Nemesis.

  2. I have experienced the same thing with being able to tank nearly everything to suddenly taking extreme damage or getting one-shot by something that was incomprehensible. There are often so many visual effects on the screen that it’s hard to decipher which attacks will actually hurt your character.

  3. I share your frustration with the crafting. Any time I have mentioned this in the past, I have received aggressive push-back by players saying that this is an ARPG and that is how it is.

But all of your crafting points are legitimate.

There absolutely should be a pathway to hitting the right crafts all the way up, even if it requires exceptional grinding. This would allow players who like to grind a pathway to better items, yet with a longer, more patient, playing style. While the players who like to gamble can still have the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG for the potential at a faster path to top-end items.

I realize, however, that EHG has a lot of features in the pipeline already, and from what I understand some changes to crafting in Season 6 and LE:O, so I decided not to voice my suggestions considering I have no idea what they have planned.

But I noticed your post and wanted to say that I share your sentiments. It’s difficult to know the consensus of the player base on certain topics. Sometimes there is a more vocal portion of the player base with certain ideas which leads others to believe they are in the minority.

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What about uncapped resistances? You need 120% to negate shred with mark of death. DoT damage reduce? Half of spells looks like hit, but they are DoT. Block? Crit immune? Possesed by? You can easily tank 500 corrupt, but typical lvl 100 Julra (for example) can kill you.

Btw 6k ward is kinda mediocre. Under armor shred with 5k armor you are like naked.

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ppl really don’t get that being brief and on point is a good quality

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Yea, if you are trying to find your legendary and then farm exalted items for the affixes, that’s kind of rough. I suppose CoF is supposed to help with this. But in my experience, just join the merchant’s guild. You can pretty much buy that 2LP unique for a reasonable amount of gold and then buy the exalteds too. It only gets stupid expensive for the super rare stuff.

Yeah, why bother playing the game when you just can buy it.

Current meta builds can kill T4 Julra before she does any mechanics. Besides, aside from the puddles and the giga explosion, nothing from her should really one shot you.

And those area easily avoidable. Even I can do it!!