First Impressions of a PoE SSF Addict

I suspect you may have forgotten all the ways PoE offers to automate things:

  • Auras/heralds
  • Blasphemy curses
  • Curse on hit
  • Cast when damage taken
  • Cast while channelling
  • Trigger a socketed spell on XXX (both on uniques & the veiled craft)
  • Cast on crit

So unless you’re going to tell me that you’ve never used any of those on any of your builds (or that they are rarely used), I think there’s some hefty rose-tinted glasses going on…

I’d even argue that PoE needs more ways to automate things because you can have more skills in your build than LE can. LE’s limit of 5 means that people often (but not always) take 1 movement skill, 1 long term buff (this is what is best automated), 1 main damage skill & 2 others, either temporary buffs or DPS skills that offset any downsides that the main DPS skill has (AoE/single target).

I think that’s also how you view them, 'cause I tend to view them as either ranged or melee in PoE as much as I do in LE.

I think that apart from acts 1-3 & the core systems (loot, skill gems, mobs, gear, passive tree, maps), everything else that the player interacts with was added since 1.0. Strongboxes were added in 1.1’s Ambush league, for example. The wiki doesn’t say when mapping was added, or how many maps were added after 1.0, but certainly, the Atlas was added after 1.0.

As many others have said, it’s foolish to compare a game still in beta (& a while off from launch) with a game that’s been around & playable for over a decade

Still rose-tinted glasses here, GD has a lot in common with PoE. They’re both aRPGs, the primary game loop is killing mobs to get loot & level up (& getting stronger). I’d say the main differences are the online/offline thing, maps as an endgame system (& quite a lot more of them), skill gems v specific skills per class, multi-classing v single class (with ascendancies being comparable to LE’s masteries) and the size of the funding that GGG received from players that allowed it to do significantly more than Crate.

3 Likes

Wait… there are different mob types in PoE? How do you recognise this? Record a video and play it at 25% speed?

2 Likes

There’s actually 3 types of mobs (I know, my head exploded when I realised this, I hope you’re sitting down), there’s the ones that die off-screen, the ones that die 2-screens away & the bosses that have immunity phases.

Edit: Hah! Nobody noticed my glaring maths error!

2 Likes

When reading a post like this i really feel for the LE developers. They are really putting a tremendous effort to make a very good sound game. Just think of the number and impact of all the changes that have happened this calendar year alone.

Yet they must find it hard not to get discontented with the endless flow of diametrically opposing views. Many of the comments are said to be “constructive feedback” but are in fact more of “i like the way this other game does it and if LE doesn’t do it like this then i will be really pi$%#ed off”. And in the same breath the same people say “oh this feels like all the ARPGs around so why should i spend money and time in something that is the same”.

It feels like a new club entering the EPL and fans say "ok you are here now so why aren’t you immediately winning the league and beating the clubs who invested $100 trillion over a number of years and have a settled front and back office.

3 Likes

I don’t think anyone, especially OP, is bashing the game as it currently is. He also said the game, as is, is enjoyable for “dozens and potentially hundreds of hours”. No small praise for an indie project with a modest startup funding and a formal development runway of less than 2 years.

He did say if the game aspire to challenge POE then it requires certain improvement. That is his opinion - some will agree. Others don’t. I dont think the devs are looking for people to sing praises of them all day. And I feel OP has been constructive without being abusive. We should encourage people with different opinions of the game to voice theirs for the betterment of the game, as long as they don’t come across as rude or abusive.

3 Likes

In addition to what Jerle said, I think the devs probably have thick enough skin to take the useful points from … illworded feedback & experienced enough to desire constructive feedback.

I don’t think that they need us to defend them per se, though having a (polite) discussion to root out the useful bits from topics like this is how we can help them the best.

2 Likes

LOL… this is pretty much depending on the build you play. Right now in PoE I have my passives running, press ONE button and my potion macro and that’s it because I don’t need anything else and facetank the world while doing so.

Sure people may like PoE above everything else but PoE is an artificaly bloated mess where 99% of the builds use the same stuff and everything else could easiely be removed to show a realistic passive tree. On top of it everything in PoE can be OP AF and playing the game can be mindnumbing and talk about t16 stuff.

LE is in a good spot, Grim Dawn did a good job and there are even some intresting D3 seasons every now and then. I think LE can easiely earn a place among these titels when the game further evolvs and all game mechanics are in place. Sure LE is a construction site atm but everything is on a good way.

Even illworded feedback might be good. I’m from germany and from my point of view almost all stuff in this forum is on the easy side of things and a lot of people are simply in the mind of saying “shit!” if they think “shit!”… it’s honest in the end but maybe not as constructive as devs want it to be :D.

1 Like

Thanks everyone for the replies, some good discussion going on here. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Agreed. This is a bit of a problem that (to me) becomes more grating the longer you play. I think LE does a great job at not making it a 1-click fest. The builds I have played (enough) have all been using the ful skillset. My two endgame characters did come down to a 1-2 skillcombo.

In PoE’s defense PoE being a market simulator is more because of how players use (or abuse) the trading system. You need trading though, as the devs are aware, to give items value.

I’d even argue that you can’t do a decent build without any of those lol. Some stuff like CwC and CoC come at a price though, for example taking up a socket or being less effective than self cast. I think it’s important to note that tradeoff, the game doesn’t really want you to automate everything.

If there’s no point to compare them, then how are you supposed to give feedback? Am I supposed to wait until the game is released and then say “hey remember that mechanic you introduced in 0.4? It really sucks. I didn’t want to say anything because well…it was still being developed!”. If I was complaing and saying “hurr why isn’t Runemaster or Rogue implemented the game sucks” or “durr theres no content in endgame” I would agree with you more.

Imagine if some guys were trying to build a house. But one of the walls is tilted. By your logic its stupid to point it out because they haven’t finished the whole house yet (Yes there’s houses with tilted walls but not the point).

Thanks. It’s good to know that I’m understood, I feel like I needed to emphasize this way too much that the game is really good in its current state.

Yes, I’ve noticed that about German/Austrian speakers… :wink:

There’s a big difference between saying “XXX is shit” & saying “XXX is shit because YYY & ZZZ”. The former is just having a go at someone, the latter is constructive feedback.

@Llama8 @Jerle
While i “overall” agree with you, that “so far” nobody really trashed the Game but only stated their Opinion, for me it often feels weird when i read such Topic. It remind’s me of the classic WoW Era, where a lot of MMO’s did popup, and when a MMO tried to be different, people complained with “you are wrong, you should do it like that if you want to compete with WoW, otherwise the Game will fail”, meanwhile other Games which tried to copy as much of WoW possible get trashed for being cheap WoW Rip-offs.

I mean don’t get me wrong, there are Games and Genre’s which i love for being consistent, the Reason why i dig ARPG’s so much is because most of them give us a different, unique Experience. This also stays true especially for Game-Series itself. I mean alot of people mourn about Diablo 3 and stuff, but imagine if they would’ve stayed consistent for Diablo 2. Than we still would’ve a mere Dungeon-Crawler with no Open World, no Skilltrees, not Class Identity and stuff. A lot of people tend to forget that there is as much of an change happened to Diablo 2 vs Diablo, as blizzard did with Diablo 3 vs 2. Heck, even for Torchlight 1+2 which were big hommage and loveletter to D1+2, it still was unique and fresh enough to be it’s own thing.

And look at Wolcen? What was the biggest hangup for the Community? That the Devs went from their initial unique Idea to a more Diablo 3 Esque approach, removing Open World to a more Linear experinece, removing almost everything what Wolcen initial idea made so unique. Or does anyone remember Sacred? I mean this is one of the very few ARPG’s (if not the only one) which was consistent. But ffs Sacred 1 was a masterpiece, and if you apply the community patches i’d argue the same goes for Sacred 2. But what about Sacred 3? Instead keeping up the stuff which made Sacred so unique, they tried to catch the Diablo 3 audience by making a cheap D3 Rip-off. Thank god, that’s what we needed yes. And than Topics like this pop-up and suggest that a ARPG to be good or being able to compete needs to be “more” like Path of Exiles. Yikes. I’d go even as far and argue that’s especially wrong considering the 3 biggest ARPG’s competitors (Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn) right now are very different Games.

I mean don’t get me wrong on this. I get that if you have your Favorite ARPG’s, there are Features which you would love to see carry over to other ARPG’s. Especially as ARPG Fan which played most of them like myself you know that feeling very well, but to say “for a ARPG to be successfull, it must be like this”, without possible considering that maybe the Game hit’s a different target audience, which try to get away from said Game(i mean seriously, PoE is one of the very few ARPG’s which i don’t like. I don’t find it very good but that’s another Topic), i mean i atleast didn’t buy into LE to get a PoE Ripoff (as example).

I mean, idk man. Maybe there are few Points which i’d say they are atleast good enough to look into it, but it really bothers me if someone comes up like: “If the Game want really to compete with something, it needs to be like something”, which IMHO is a pretty close-minded “Mainstream” mentality. I mean Path of Exile itself is the proof anyway, goes away from the classical Class-Identity and proper skilltree, to such a Final Fantasy 7 Esque Materia-alike Gem-Socket System(which is one of the reasons why i dislike PoE so much).

I mean okay, like you said he / she does give his/her perspective which Devs could take into the account, and i’m sure they won’t change it simply out of the competition thought they need to be more like PoE, but rather if they really decide to change, mostly due it might still fit their vision, but i can understand why the Guy you answered is so worked up about this topic(because that goes for myself as well). Especially if someone generalize so much, because i can tell you to 100% if they would change their Class-System to this Gem-Socket type of stuff, than i’m pretty much gone.

1 Like

But are you having a good time? Is it fun?
It shouldn’t matter if a build has 1-7 buttons it uses. It needs to be fun.

I’m a big fanboy of PoE and to me it is one of the greatest bastions of gamedesigns and I couldn’t agree more with that statement. But how it FEELS is completely different. And that’s the magic you want baby. Not everything has to be possible, but it has to FEEL like it’s possible. PoE has this nailed down to the f*cking wall (having the gear being so deep helps). Most players know that CwC Cyclone flame wall won’t work. But maybe. Just maybe. If you could get that Kaom’s Heart…maybe you could make it work…

It will definitely not be easy. It’s going to take a tremendous amount of effort to rival Diablo and PoE. Especially keeping in mind that those devs are working on next versions too that vie for our attention. I absolutely think the studio is up to the task though (I wouldn’t be posting such lengthy novels otherwise) but sure as sh*t it ain’t gonna be easy. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

1 Like

It’s a tough line to find between being unique & trying new things but also doing things in a similar enough way that you’re not confusing the **** out of the people trying to play your game.

I loved Sacred 1 & 2, #3 was an abomination…

2 Likes

I won’t argue that, but the thing is, doesn’t it go the same for Path of Exile. Like i said, there are three major competitors right now with PoE, Diablo 3 and Grim Dawn (and soon i guess this korean grinder called Lost Ark) and each go their own direction. Sure there might some stuff where they inspire them from the other competitors, but overall. I mean if we say, they would go more the PoE direction, you would atleast confuse the D3 or GD crowd, if they go more GD than the same for D3 and PoE… and so on. So on which audience they need to focus so they don’t confuse the s*** out of people?

While i agree with you, that’s atleast how i feel as well, i’ve yet to add something in this. With my Argument above, i didn’t meant to trash Sacred 3. For People (and i know for sure there are some people who infact do) who love/like Sacred 3, all power to you. I didn’t mean to offend you. I simply tried to make a point that going with the standarts and mainstream isn’t everytime in the interest of Fans or Players.

TheLightningYu

Your posts are so true.
I have the same ref as you, play the same game and love every series because of their uniqueness. You’re right too on telling that D1 and D2 are really different and it’s a good thing.

The only A-RPG I don’t like is POE. I play during alpha and beta, and could not support the gem system, even if I find it really interesting in concept.
I dont like that my build depend only on the loot (passive in PoE is a farce to me, at least at the end of the beta…).

Some other point in the thread are very interesting like power of item when seeing them.
Shard could have different color depends on the rarity too.
Color may depends on the total number of affix as proposed.
Another possibility (but hard to implement I think) is to color them depending on how well they match your loot filter.

1 Like

For me personally this is one of the downsides of PoE, the fact that almost any build will come to a point where the pace of combat is hilariously fast botheres me.

GGG already did some effort to reduce that by a little bit, with the big 2H changes and now with the relatively big cooldowns skills they added. But still PoE’s pace is one of my biggest gripes about the game. And the fact that you can clear more than one screen or more in mere fractions of a second is NOT enjoyable for me.

I would argue that PoE 1.0 had the same or less character building potential than LE currently has.

That is not true. While not everybuild has it, there are alot of builds that use certain instant cast stuff autocast on leftclick.

On top of that many of PoE’s builds (not all) revolve around ONE skill, with some occasional other skills within the rotation(some builds don’t even have more than 1 active skill to use)

In LE you have a relatively small number of useable skills at once, but for each and every builds you are using them ALL. Even with some skills as “autocast”, Builds in LE use more active skills on average than PoE’s.

EHG is already making attempts to remove anykind of “autocast” behaviour for skills. We will get to a point were autocast will be no longer present in LE, i am sure about that.

I don’t say PoE in general or PoE 1.0 is bad, i played a fair share of PoE myself for a decent amount of time. But PoE 1.0 was not that far away from current state of LE and PoE 1.0 was slightly longer in development.

I am pretty sure that LE within the 2 next major patches has more content that PoE 1.0.

I do agree that you shouldn’t just comapre LE to PoE, but to other simialr games. You mentioned Grim Dawn, whic his fair. But the statement that LE has virtually nothing in common with PoE is not true.

LE did take alot of inspiration for several other aRPG’s but also introduced a fair share of their own innovative ideas.

1 Like

I will just leave my 2 cents here.

PoE did a lot of great decisions and design choices, but design of combat or pacing is not one of these. Also I would like to see LE staying away from PoE’s style of character progression and “customization”.

3 Likes

If it was easy there woul’d be a lot of arpgs out there ^^. I think LE hits a sweet spot between the mind numbing ease of D3 and the total (unneeded) overload PoE is. Sure D4 and PoE2 will be there in the future and will be played but right NOW LE is the only intresting hack and slay that might see a realease in the somewhat near future.

So far only TL3 is there and TL3 is to light hearted to invest much time in it from my point of view but D4 and PoE2 is nothing we’ll see the next year… at least that’s what I think but what do I know ^^.

Then again LE needs to proof itself on the market because right now it’s a bit of a rolercoaster. I realy like the change with the defences for example and I talk about this since forever and now we finaly get some changes. Then again they wanted to do different approaches and they fend off each and every criticism about the system in place and now they change it. Let’s see if future changes water down the game or change it to something even better but I realy hope they stick with their vision.

1 Like

I kinda find it weird to like poe ssf loot and commenting on LE loot, let me explain better:

  • If LE loot and stats are a copypasta of some other game the closest one is PoE, same stuff of %life, flat life, crit chance & multi, same system of affixes and suffix spaces. It’s just a matter of work hours to add another 500 variety of affixes
  • (Big IMHO here) PoE loot is actually worse than LE, but as standalone point of view (not comparing to LE) it is just horrible in an ARPG.
    You have a tiny inv space and limited TPs, the gear is in the ground UNID. You need to setup the filter to hide 99% of the loot, then you need to take additional steps to loot unid stuff to then id the what, 20 items in the tiny inventory and throw another 99.9% of it. We are in the realm of 10k items to get a 1-5% upgrade, entire days or a week of grinding random mobs and looting crap with no progression (target farming is almost null and those encounters with a loot table are awfully rare or need an additional multi tier fragment farming). The system is so much intentionally diluted that it screams for RMT to buy a 10%+ upgrade in a matter of clicks.

It would require a possibly impractical overhaul, but if I would steer LE gear into some direction I would point it to GD.

That one is the ultimate SSF experience and is made for the player not for the RMT house, you really want to hoard stuff in it and the game does nothing to stop you, the philosophy is so much better, you can target farm, sure there are some super rare chase drops (never farm certain rings from bosses and expect quick loot heh) but you can make a run somewhere and find yourself with satisfying amounts of purples+blues+MIs that may not be the ones you need right now but you don’t want to throw them as these are completely powerful items that rather need to be hoarded for your future toons.

So at some point you find yourself with hoarded gear for 5-20+ possible combos and classes and you just have to roll new toons and then these toons will keep dropping uber gear and so on

1 Like

Yeah, I would like to see things like MIs in LE, though how they would work given the differing skill systems I don’t know.

There’s a lot of POE talk here. I understand and accept that it’s ok to compare LE to another game to make certain points. But discussions often spiral out of control once comparisons start to happen. All I can say is I really like the foundation of the item system and crafting. It has really good potential. They just need to add more depth and change the presentation of items (rare, unique, etc).