So if people don’t want to trade they should not be allowed to play with other people?
And PoE rather brutally fucked you over on the drop rates forcing you to trade unless you’re a masochist (SSF enjoyer) This is not the good argument you think it is.
No, they are very much opposing in terms of how you want to get your gear - trade or not-trade.
Your example isn’t a real distinction either, it’s made up for narrative purposes. CoF/MG reflects real differences in how people like to get their loot.
For you, yes. But if you want to find a specific base with specific affixes, MG is demonstrably faster because there are thousands of players potentially finding it. Even the devs have said this.
Yup. If you want a Smite idol (for arguments sake), MG will be quicker.
MG can “target farm” the AH. CoF could get lucky and have an exceptional item drop, but as has been said, MG is plain faster at the not-highest levels of gearing, so MG could bootstrap themselves up more quickly.
Yeah, the phrase makes a lot more sense if you reverse it - you want to eat your cake & have it too, since that is clearly not possible.
It’s one of the things that enforces a separation between the two factions, otherwise you’d have the benefits of both at the same time.
That’s not what you said.
You said Aaron can buy gear in MG in 1 hour. Here:
Go next.
I welcome this example.
You’re saying CoF is equal to MG when you play Legacy and have a stash full of stuff. Which means there would be no benefit to switching factions, and therefore no reason to restrict item usage to faction. Points for my argument.
But we both obviously know that 1) they are not equal, 2) not everyone plays Legacy, and 3) not everyone has a full stash of CoF gear in Legacy.
So next time, maybe you could skip mentioning an irrelevant fact and save us some time.
Again, that’s not what you said.
You said:
which you expanded by saying:
If you don’t know wtf you were talking about, read your previous posts. Go next.
Again, not what you said.
You said:
See, I don’t need to cherry pick anything. You literally forgot what you wrote. Today. In your own posts.
No. Just like poe.
If you want to trade, play normal.
If you don’t want to trade, play normal and don’t trade, or play SSF.
If you don’t want to trade, but you want to play with friends, play normal and don’t trade.
I think we already established there’s a difference between poe and LE.
poe has nothing.
LE has CoF.
If CoF and MG had no restriction on gear, poe would still have nothing and LE would still have the CoF bonuses.
So last time I checked, trading doesn’t disable item drops, so they are in fact NOT opposing each other. Both have the same basic mechanic - item drops - and both add their own unique mechanic:
extra drops for the player with CoF
drops from other players with MG
Not sure which example you’re referring to, but I said basically the same thing:
So yes, we agree that CoF and MG reflects how people want to play.
I agree, but I fail to see how the reversed sentence applies to my scenario. I guess he was trying to describe the double dipping again?
Firstly, I have some of them anyway.
I can farm runes and glyphs and (1.2 relevant) full sets of items for set shards in CoF, then use them when crafting MG gear. The gold from CoF is also used to buy gear in MG.
Secondly, I still don’t know why would it be a problem.
If a family/two friends playing CoF together just want to play together, and they are NOT TRADING, why do they care about what the other players are doing?
If they are deliberately choosing to not eat a cake, then don’t be surprised you get less of a cake. But I see no reason to limit other people’s cakes intake
To me playing CoF is a choice. CoF is (was?) patheticly weak compared to the power of buying the items you want and need. It’s like starting a marathon with tided togheter shoelaces without any chance to untie them.
Everyone who don’t want to go through a possible struggle session should simply stay away from CoF and avoid it like a plague (if it wasn’t changed drasticly). Everyone has to option to pick and choose the sandwich they like or the sandwich with the turd spread so to speak.
CoF does one thing for me… getting nice drops is fun and what hack & slash games are about. It makes the game longer because it takes a lot more time to get realy nice stuff so it’s a win:win for me.
Given that short introduction so people can understand my personal point of view. I think switching from one faction to the other is far to easy and by far not restrictive enough. As soon as you play the market faction everything that is dopped should be labled market as well.
On the other hand items in legacy should be freely tradeable untill they were gathered in legacy mode. Then said items should have the tag of the faction you choose to play.
This is just my personal view on the matter and not applyable to everyone for sure. In this matter I’m in the “Choices should matter and should’ve merits and flaws” camp. I’m sure EHG will do something about it if people ask about it for times a year or if they have time to finetune existing systems.
As I said, I won’t address the rest of the stuff because you’re kinda like Descartes. Each sentence you twist it a little until you arrive at the opposite conclusion. So I won’t even bother with that.
But I will address this specifc thing:
PoE gives a cake to everyone that likes to trade. Those that don’t don’t have any cake.
EHG saw this and said: “We will give 1 cake to everyone”.
You saw this and are saying “I want 2 cakes instead”.
So what do they care about what the others are doing? They care that they are only given one cake when others are given 2, when before everyone had 1 and the game was equal for everyone, or close to it.
With what you want, we might as well just scrape MG and CoF entirely. Let everyone trade and increase drop rates globally. What you want is PoE with better drops.
And I’ll pull back this sentence:
If you don’t NEED to trade in LE, then you’re fine already. Just go CoF and you got what you want.
The devs have answered this many, many times. The “dual use” benefits you mention are very minor compared to having the ability to gear up “instantly” (if you have the gold & faction rep) in very-good-but-not-BiS-gear then flip to CoF to have significantly better drops (from the rank bonuses) and target farm from prophecies. Others can explain better than I.
Especially uniques are extremely prone to have the CoF tag, with higher LP.
I’ve played shortly CoF and my collection turned into a good 40% CoF tagged items.
I would say the chance that your piece of gear is in that group is highly likely.
Especially bad for Idols as well given that you create so many extra idols with it as well.
50% is a very very substantial amount. So the argument ‘your character could end up naked’ is rather close to the truth. The chance to have severe drawbacks are just extremely high.
Another reason as to why Gold as the currency for MG is nonsensical by design, otherwise it would be fully separated and there would be no need for a faction tag at all! You could simply have the ‘cannot be traded’ tag on an item and that would suffice completely.
I don’t see the reason for it at all.
What does it actually do? You’ve put in effort to acquire the favour and it’s account shared, it’s not a character based value.
I can understand prophecies being removed from my character as I’m not part of the faction anymore… but why the favour? It’s a punishment for all my other characters, the one I’m playing is not affected directly after all, I just can’t reliably come back with that one character… which should be limited by the acquisition of rewards anyway rather then trying to enforce keeping someone in the respective faction.
Remove Gold for MG and use a currency only dropped while playing MG and that solves itself. You’ve ‘earned’ the access then with your time investment and there neither is a need for favour removal nor for faction tagging.
It’s a badly designed system simply.
I would argue mastery switching is a even more meaningful choice… and that flew out the window entirely.
Also… why not present a faction change token which costs a boatload of favour and hence allow the change this way? It would come with a inherent high cost and hence not be worthwhile to switch around… allow it nonetheless… and make the choice meaningful without the major detriments attached.
Half-way, I’ve thought a lot about it since then and the gear locking can actually be removed if the cost of switching is substantial enough. Also with the disability to double-dip.
Hence a first-character approach and a hindrance for long-standing character.
This means no Gold for MG and a attached high cost for faction switching. You could remove both the faction tags and favour loss entirely and only keep a ‘cannot be traded’ tag in the game for the whole system to function in a much much less grating way while upholding the design philosophies behind them.
Given how bad the drop-rate for MG is in some places it’s actually the other way around. CoF is currently the superior one as the amount of players using MG because of the UI issues and very bad functionality have dropped severely. Price checking is a fundamental aspect of listing items and that’s something which is still not in any comfortable way achieved for example.
Also, LP items through MG are easier to acquire. They are a ‘fixed state’ item basically, hence through the sheer quantity of players doing content they amass. For exalted items without the CoF boost that simply doesn’t uphold though.
You can - very - easily find a T7+T6 exalted item with decent rolls in CoF personally given you play a while, but those are very very very valuable items in MG. Good T7 items already start with 20+ mil in cost, adding a T6 to such an affix raises it to 100+ mil easily as a base to even craft on, not the finished result. That’s very close to the gold back in percentile, which is a bad state overall.
And a T7+T6+T6 item? You don’t see them in MG, they drop for CoF players over time though, and with at least usable affixes even. For Legendary crafting CoF is substantually better then MG.
For initial item acquisition MG is a lot better though.
Would’ve been better in the current state, yes. Or alternatively designing it properly so the hindrance of switching has meaning while the grating feeling of it is removed.
Double dipping is a problem because it would create a disproportionate power scaling. It would basically mandate faction switching as a meta, and that would be a bother, and annoying bothers make people stop playing.
Like the PoE manual item trading system for consumables did it until they finally went the asynchronous trading route.
But there’s - as mentioned - options available to alleviate that without the current perceived downsides.
Yes, for anything up to top-tier MG is better.
CoF outpaces at the top-end though.
It’s a perception thing and social thing.
SSF removes you from the social aspect entirely. CoF doesn’t. It allows grouping but itemization is the only limited aspect.
It has a very important and interesting position which is overall positive. The system is simply a new design method on the market and it hasn’t been fully fleshed out yet.
We can see the ‘beginner’s issues’ still tangling over the whole system where specific choices just could’ve been improved on substantially… but weren’t since the devs didn’t get that idea at the respective moment.
Or lack to understand the interacting behaviour between the combination of different aspects. I mean… Gold as the resource used for MG showcases that well enough, both for the double-dipping potential as well as the system limitations it’s underlying anyway.
It isn’t, for exalted items CoF is overall better.
For LP items MG is overall better.
If you want to push your character without many uniques to the limit then CoF long-term is better.
If you want to push your character which basically is only made up of uniques then MG is long-term better.
That’s the power of group-shared resources after all, but even group-shared resources can’t make up for a scarcity of them. The boni gotten from CoF related to exalted item drop-rate and exalted item quality when they drop is just utterly insane.
Yeah, Legacy highlights the long-term issues with MG very well. It’s been a year since the system came out and prices are ridiculous.
Sure, in PoE the prices are also a lot higher in Standard… but the value of your acquired resources aligns with it as well. This simply isn’t the case in LE.
Trade is not inherently toxic. The grating system of synchronous trade is. Asynchronous trade is a non-toxic environment.
It’s a competition between players nonetheless at any time, but it includes no inherent toxicity. It has side effects which can lead to it but generally don’t if the mechanical setup is properly handled.
For example price-fixing doesn’t work in a asynchronous trade environment since you can’t avoid removal of your cheap ‘traps’ in the system, you can only buy out specific items and overprice them to then trick people by lowering the prices back down again. This though is a short-term and extremely risky endeavour as it can also lead you to overpay and not return the invested funds… which is never the case with price-fixing in a synchronous system though as you can just ignore any messages you get from those things and another character (a friend for example) sells the things you’re ‘flooring’ beyond that floor-price.
Because the perceived framework people work inside is important.
We have HC because the fixed limitation has meaning, otherwise we wouldn’t need it. Your character dies once? Just don’t play it!
Same with SSF… don’t interact with other players.
But if you enforce it through a hard limit then it feels different. External limitations urge our minds to overcome them, internal limitations are those easily skimped out on. The derived enjoyment from overcoming hurdles through external limitations is vastly higher then self-made goals.
Yes, with a secondary character.
If you play sufficiently long enough then the same happens in CoF. You don’t even need a hour, you only need minutes.
It’s about the difference in time investment for different areas of the game.
4 LP items are definitely easier acquired in MG, exalted ones still in CoF. Specific exalted ones not, but the ones acquired have a higher power then those available in MG.
The example was apt actually.
It’s a perception thing. So ‘yes it will’.
Also any option to adjust difficulty or acquisition of items and causes a difference is no different from a ‘cheat’. Just a milder version.
It generally comes down to speed of acquisition of respective perceived power level. Different people have a different baseline of what they enjoy given a different attention span and several other factors.
Hence a ‘cheat’ to acquire 10 times as many resources will cause some people to play a ton longer… and others to reduce their own playtime. It’s a ‘accessibility’ versus ‘longevity’ choice there, always has been.
That’s why for example souls-likes generally don’t offer difficulty options, they are designed with a specific narrow margin for success and failure, hence specifically maintaining a distinct perception for the player.
You don’t need to trade in PoE and you don’t need to trade in LE.
You think you do… but you can absolutely forego the usage of factions completely in LE and still have a good time, same as playing trade-league and not ever touch the trade-site and have a great time too!
But you’re clearly highlighting the perception issue yourself there. ‘Just don’t do it!’ is not an option when it becomes the meta. Our brains want to do things efficiently and finish stuff… even if keeping on doing something would be more fun then getting it over with.
This only upholds when the respective playerbase is sufficient to support the system and also if the auxiliary mechanics upholding the system functionf lawlessly.
Gold cap for example already pushes the favor towards CoF.
The multiplicator for exalted drops also - very heavily even - does so.
Since there’s a lot of items which as finished crafts would go beyond the value of the current technical gold limit (when compared to other listings) that means someone wanting to profit doesn’t list them, we return to bartering through the gifting mechanic rather then actually using the system meant to acquire them. Also since inflation of gold is massive and there’s a very limited amount of viable base items actually dropping the disparity between lower end and higher end becomes massive with little middle-ground. That causes issues with progression in MG for new players starting late in a cycle as they have very few means to acquire any sort of valuable items to actually get those funds.
The majority of ‘MG is superior’ talks generally relates around early starts with playing the market before it reaches the natural equilibirium, but like in PoE a early adopter in a competitive environment obviously has a massive upside… but that’s what also the majority of people here does, playing day 1.
It’s important to view it also from the position of a latecomer.
What you’re talking about are so called ‘iFrames’ which are frames during which either a hitbox isn’t available or any incoming damage is negated. They require skill from the player to use and hence are a mechanical hurdle to overcome.
Putting in ‘godmode’ in a console is not.
The same systems which are massive detriments provided in a properly positioned and limited manner become massive boons to a game… and generally greatly perceived mechanics badly implemented become detriments.
Game design is about balancing the psychological needs of our brains with the tools available. If you use any tool in the wrong way you generally won’t like the outcome, no matter where, exceptions apply.
Yes, agreed, DJ’s example is cherry-picking there.
If we wanna compare it we need to do it either with established accounts or with fresh accounts. Or with a fixed timeframe of investment. Not switching between them.
Yes, but I’ll also add that the upper limit for CoF is higher then the upper limit for MG for the ultimate result of a character.
CoF takes vastly more time at the ‘early top-end’ then MG… but MG has a really hard time even coming close to the top-end levels which CoF can and will reach over time in a reliable manner.
The longer you play the higher the difference in results get in the top-end. That’s a big factor.
If you set the bar as low as ‘a well equipped character’ then they seem rather equivalent. If you go into min-max ranges? Absolute and very obvious differences.
Same with progressing through content, where the systems should be especially well balanced to each other… those should be focused on heavily as it’s what the majority of players will overall experience.
Then infer what the example meant instead of taking it literally. If you take things literal then you’ll miss out on the majority of things people try to actually say… because nobody does especially well when it comes to communicating over written words. Unless you want to wait on actual novel sized explanations with fringe cases, exceptions and source-linking to happen while being willing to go through that for hundreds of hours potentially.
Because to understand the full magnitude of how markets and itemization progression works you’ll need to invest that much time to get the ‘devil in the details’ at least to a degree.
Yes, they are not equal, but neither of you seems to get what the difference between them is.
MG is superior when it comes to swift progression.
CoF is superior when it comes to the upper ceiling reached.
So as an example lets say the first 500 hours provide the major difference in which both would be roughly at the same stage. RNG is likely to have given a CoF player around the same status as a MG player.
Now the positions switch. A MG player will have a hard time finding anything to upgrade and be able to actually acquire with funds on the bazaar. Either no listings or the prices are exorbitantly high because the bazaar has more loot… but it leans towards the lower quality of it. A CoF player will need high luck for RNG to drop a valuable item, but they drop them regularly… just not for their character, but it’s overall higher quality then what MG reliably offers.
So in the potential situation that we can switch freely between factions the ultimate extreme outcome would be that creating a secondary character would first go MG, immediately buy everything to skip 500 hours of game-progression completely (as favour will be present and it can be bought with roooughly the gold cap still) before then immediately switching to CoF and playing on to acquire top-end gear which isn’t available in MG. That’s double-dipping.
Why? Because while playing CoF you’ll with guarantee acquire gold on the side anyway, hence when you play another 500 hours you’ll be able to re-do it without downside as favour is not a limiting factor for acuiqisition, the hour I spend for favour compared to the 500 I need for gold acquisition is in no relation to each other after all, just too massive a difference.
Hence when you remove acquisition through gold that means you suddenly need to invest hundreds of hours into MG to acquire those exclusive resources used there and hence the items through it. It doesn’t allow you to simply ‘skip’.
This for example would achieve the ability to use both factions without double dipping as the investment and effort would be still needed without bypassing it.
CoF enables item drops. It’s the opposite.
You get more stuff in CoF, so yes, if we’re nitpicking then ‘trading does disable item drops’.
It goes both way after all for examples. You can’t cherry pick either if you don’t let others cherry pick.
Which is a problem with the current setup and a failing from EHGs implementation.
This is something which shouldn’t exist in the first place and hence needs to be addressed.
What you want is to further lean into it instead which is not supposed to happen
Fix issues, don’t make them worse!
Not really aptly described.
Yes, you start a marathon with your shoelaces tied together.
But the finishing of that marathon gives you a solid block of gold as a reward.
If you start in MG and stay you start the marathon ‘normally’ but the reward will be a gold-covered trophy which is made out of aluminum inside actually.
Also not well described.
What are you planning to do? Are you a ‘I come back every cycle’ player? Then pick MG. More comfortable definitely.
Are you a ‘forever player’ which is heavily into min-max? CoF, not even a second thought.
Finally an apt example
Yes, and that’s more then understandable! And viable! And agreed even!
The discussion kinda went away from that though
Yeah, and what the devs said in that regard is hogwash to a decent degree.
It takes the large issue and ignores the details. Much like the 50/50 split between CoF and MG. It doesn’t uphold when you visit long-term environments (Legacy) and short-term environments (Cycle) and look at them.
Yeah, people want to split 50/50… but that is only if the respective systems highlight their specific area well and give you the respective upsides for that.
The current implementation of factions doesn’t succeed properly in that yet. A good ‘first try’ but not there. It’s at best a ‘positive prototype’ for it.
Sadly beyond the initial vision any detailed communication about it has been ‘yeah, it’s because of xyz’ and 20 times the flaws have been showcased with several solutions presented to solve them in different ways (some better some worse) and still the same stance is there as at the beginning from people arguing about it.
We know that something is off. The argument should be about *what exactly is ‘off’ as well as how to make the ‘off’ thing into a working one.
Ever played games that allow u to make the game easier. And also recommend default setting as the intended way to play by the devs? In the case of souls games. They can simply add sething like this. U want the og challenge of souls game. Play it as devs recommend u to do.
Cyberpunk was a bit of a challenging game when missions had static lvls. Till 2.0 update added lvl scalling making the game easy as hell. Now i play it on the hardest difficulty to bring back the challenge it once had.
If a player TRULY wants a challenge they wont make a game easier. If ur changing it to easier did u HONESTLY really want a challenging game. Not in my book
I think DJ generalized a bit too much here, but I totally agree with him though.
There are totally players who’s enjoyment of the game would be reduced by adding difficulty sliders to a game, even though they would not like to use them.
This is similar to other things like the mastery respec, that will be possible in the next patch. The sole introduction fo this “feature” will diminish the fun and enjoyment certain players will have with the game, even though the will never touch or use this feature.
And as a dev it is totally fine to design and keep certain things a specific way, even though doing it a different way might open the game to a broader audience.
Even though it is about making money at the end of the day for a game dev, not every design decision needs to be about maximizing profit.
HUUUUUH??? CoF is all about target farming. Thats what prophecies are away to target farm. U also have timeline specific rewards. Echos as well.
If by MG can target farm u mean go shopping. Thats not target farming. What one is doing is going to a market place and shopping for an item.
I will say tho both factions can target farm. Its different for cof than MG. In MG ur targeting farm items to sell. In CoF ur target farming gear for ur build.
Nope slider or not. Still the exact same game. As i pointed out in another reply to u.
What they want is in fact still in the game. If default elden ring settings are set to challenging as the game is currently. It changes nothing. Those players still in fact have EXACTLY what they are looking for. And that is a game by default settings is challenging.
Which has an easy fix. Awhile back i tried pointing out the friction difference between switch from any faction to the other… friction for this IMHO shouldnt be different from one faction switch to the other. The downside should be exactly the same. As u can see in OP post its not at all.
Now for the easy fix. Which i pointed out and suggested is allowing a player to only beable to use gear they have EQUIPPED so if u go from CoF to MG all gear tagged CoF (EQUIPPED only) can be used. All other restrictions still apply. Such as cannot be traded tag. Nor being able to use any cof tagged gear in the faction u switched too. By this i mean in ur stash
I also suggested some sort of faction gear orb. Were it drops for everyone in the game. And could also be very rare like ruin of creation. So know ur can have a choice to take ur best gear with u.
There are better ways to stop this hot swapping which is the point of the switching friction.
There are alot of players that enjoy pushing as far as they can without trading then later trade to finish up a build. Current friction stops this. Theres been several times i wanted to switch to MG to finish off a build. Gear being locked to said faction isnt the only friction in switching. Especially for seasonal players like myself…now i have to refarm or buy the best gear i had at 400c just to get back to where i was before the switch.
First of all: ‘No and yes’ respectively at different parts.
‘No’ for adding difficulty options to souls-likes… they have them removed for a purpose.
‘Yes’ for recommended difficulties and similar, obviously a good aspect for games to showcase.
The choice of actually giving players a option is the choice between ‘accessibility’ and ‘longevity’. It allows players with a lower skill level to actually interact with your game… but it also makes it so ‘non-dev recommended’ difficulties tend to feel ‘off’ by making enemies often spongy or pushovers, and to avoid that it also can lead to quite intensive amounts of effort needing to be taken to make it work. Not to speak that it causes a not inconsequential amount of people to pick ‘the wrong difficulty’ for their best-case experience, reducing the enjoyment they could’ve gotten from the game otherwise.
Because people are rather bad at picking the right difficulty to make games ‘fit’ for them.
Besides all the things the game offered and improved with 2.0 the level scaling was one of the worst decisions to include. It makes progression of character power far less meaningful. Worked badly in Bethesda games… still works badly nowadays.
The idea behind it as a baseline was right. The example… was the wrong one.
FromSoftware even explained their exact reasoning - and it’s a good one - behind them not implementing difficulty options.
It’s about providing a specific feel related to the different enemies and bosses, and the probable stage of equipment one will have at that time. One-shots or close to them happening and making it hard to recover during bosses for example, which intentionally create a stressful situation. They use their difficulty of different enemies to cause environmental storytelling which immerses a player better as well. Things like those would get lost when changing it up, and it’s actually one of the reasons why the genre became so beloved by the people which enjoy this direction. And as we can see… that’s a lot of them.
To be fair… a broader audience doesn’t always correlate with better profits. Longevity is important. Be it simply through player retention or through content-depth or quantity to cause long-term interactions as you still have a lot ‘leftover’ while making steady progress in it.
The only things you can target farm in MG is uniques from bosses.
Calling it ‘target farming’ is simply unfitting in the first place, yeah.
Buying/selling /= target farming
Same game… different perception from the position of the player and the community.
Changes substantially how people interact with it.
Those details are the ‘make or break’ of games surprisingly often. Perception is the most important part of game development.
For example we can take the game-mechanic of checkpoints to return to a former position. They can be perceived as a detriment or as a boon. A rogue-like looses all identity if it has checkpoints, because it’s about going through content in one try. In comparison in ‘Trackmania’ you want to have checkpoints to allow players to re-do segments which they failed on to allow them to become better there.
Both have a completely opposite direction towards checkpoints… but both would fail if you turn it the other way around.
Mechanics provide a function. But that function is only positive when it’s given meaning. Without it those functions become a detriment.
The same goes for difficulty. Generally nowadays providing difficulty is a boon… but exceptions apply. For example in a online environment like LE you don’t provide them as it would split the community and water down perception. And in Souls-likes it takes away from the environmental storytelling and also the tight-knit balancing of resolving fights which allows you to gradually learn it without being completely overbearing. You’ll fail but you’ll ‘git gud’ from doing so. It enforces learning which could be avoided through providing a easier mode, reduces accesibility though since not everyone is able to learn to that degree.
Exactly, yours would work decently and be a solution. Though not a universal one as it allows easy mess-ups still.
Hence why the ‘effort’ put into acquisition needs to be similar.
The effort of acquisition for CoF items demands you at all times to play CoF, as you only get the boon while being aligned with their faction.
With MG this is not upheld. You get the boon (which is achieved through Gold) while playing CoF.
This obviously goes against the core principle of sustaining the similarity between them.
Hence why I’m urging for a separate currency usage to enforce aligning to MG to actually use MG.
Hence that’s an inherent friction which would allow switching without double-dipping or downsides being included. The rewards derived are solely the result then but the effort to achieve them needs the alignment. The continuity is upheld this way.
We’ll see how targeted that is. Would be good to have such options but I think it’ll more lean into variety rather then targeted methods from what we’ve seen for now.
So in other words. What iv tried saying anytime this is brought up. Is letting players use the loot they have EQUIPPED when switching and only that gear. Anything in ur stash is locked out if tagged with a faction tag. Unless ur in that faction
Iv also suggested making this a one time free thing. As a safty net as EHG intentions are with the friction. Then after this free switch with no downsides other than whats already there. The current friction kicks in. Meaning u can still switch now the downside is harsher. Stopping this hot swapping people are so afraid of
Am i understanding this correctly? If so ur being met with the same missunderstand replys i got with my post about this same thing.
Having to remove gear or even end up naked is nothing but a middle finger from EHG saying u want to switch well FK all the work and time u just spent farming up all that good ass gear. Now do it again. Thats exactly what happens
It was awhile ago. If i remember correctly i also made a post about the switching friction.
This is not true, though. Most of these items drop from Nemesis, so you have them in MG as well. Here’s an example:
The UI to search for them is horrible, though. Let’s hope they improve it in Season 2.
I did not say it was. Just that PoE’s is (and D2’s was as well). And that’s by choice. They recently relented with materials trading, but still refuse to do the same for all trading. If they did, their trading system would stop being toxic overnight.
You seem to miss the point. The only reason souls-games became popular is because they are a niche genre that has no easy mode. Players were attracted to that niche because it has no easy mode.
There already existed thousands of games that had extremely hard modes, but those games didn’t have the same appeal to these players. Why? Because anyone can beat them. Reaching the end isn’t special, even if you’re playing on the hard difficulty.
But with souls-games, if you reach the game, you’re in a small elite of people. Very few people actually finish a souls-game. Vastly less so than a normal game.
Adding a difficulty slider will make it so that a lot more people finish the game and it’s not a special thing anymore.
What souls-games players like is the “git gud” playstyle. Adding difficulty sliders removes the “git gud” playstyle. So they won’t play them anymore. Players may hate them for that mentality, but it is what makes the game.
If you want a 4LP Kestrel, with MG you go to the bazaar and buy one of the dozens in there in 1 minute. With CoF you have to spend a ton of prophecies and will likely spend days farming to get one.
MG gives you specifically what you want right away. CoF doesn’t.
Over a long period of time, you’ll get more powerful items with CoF, but you won’t get that specific one you want right away.
I should have placed the term target farming there between quotes. It’s a different kind of target farming, where you find what you want in the bazaar and then farm currency to buy it. But in the end, for many many things, you can actually find exactly what you want in MG, whereas you can’t control that in CoF.
Season 2 will change this a bit with the weaver tree and some of the nodes allowing you to target farm more effectively, like the new node spoiler Mike showed on stream, where you imprint an item and you will get more drops similar to that item.
It’s not, like I said above. Without difficulty sliders, souls-games are a unique game in a niche genre. With difficulty sliders, they are just one more game among dozens of other similar games.
Adding a difficulty slider to souls games means that there is no longer any difference between them and, for example, the Horizon games in hard mode.
What you are saying is like saying that D4 and PoE are both great games for hardcore players because hardcore players can play D4 naked and it will be a hard game. D4 is not an hardcore diablo-like just because you can make things hard for you.
Options change a game identity and can even cause it to change niches or even genres.
I don’t mind that. But it will still create a meta where every player that is racing the leaderboards will start MG, equip great gear for mono farming, then switch to CoF. The most efficient strategy will be to use MG gear in CoF faction. And this will happen with every single character they create.
Unless you make this free swap a global account setting. Then I would agree 100%.
The first time you join a faction in your account, in any mode, you get awarded a global token which you can use at any time to swap without constraints.
You can use it on your character and it’s done. From then on, any other character that wants to swap will have the current friction and penalties.
This way, if you genuinely made a mistake and want to actually change your faction you can, but if you’re trying to cheese the game by doing meta swapping, you can’t.
Problem is it doesnt solve the issue of ur equipped gear progress being almost entirely reset . As i was saying when someone switching factions at say 400+c or at any time be that even 100c.
This whole being locked out of good gear ur using is nothing but the devs being a dick and saying well F your progress u switched. Now grind for ur good gear u where using again. All while laughing and saying cant do 400c now can u. Which is what i brought up when i made a post about the switching friction be very badly done/thought out.
This in no way is a good downside at all. At no point in any game should devs make a player lose gear progress that being what ur actually using. Now d2 in way did this when u die. Which is no where near as harsh as switching factions in LE
Especially in season mode.
MG to cof wouldnt even be a meta. That switch makes zero sense. Iv seen far far more players in global chat and on forms be it reddit steam ect. State Its actually better to start in cof then switch to MG later in end game at some point. Because unlike MG where majority of ur gear ur using will be MG tagged. Where as cof will be anywhere from 2-all of ur gear slots being cof tagged.
Gold being used for trading is a huge issue with the meta u speak of. Which if MG had its own currency as it should have been from the start. Would shut down this as well as remove the need for faction tagged items. Maybe not shut down. But keep the switch meta to what already is in the game. Not many do it i will say tho. So most imo dont realize there is in fact a switch meta already
