Glad ye and Mike got some rest. I cannae wait for the new content and the season 4 
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They also mentioned it for Orobyss, so it’s definitely just padding. They launched this game too early.
please buff some of those useless uniques!
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So, I’m kind of hoping this won’t simply be added to all of the existing encounters in maps. As I think it’s time to take a Torchlight Infinite approach of pulling many of these things out of maps and into their own side content that players can choose to run. I feel like maps themselves are already kind of bloated.
While I don’t play TL:I anymore, they’ve definitely done a great job of offering diverse endgame choices, with their own loot trees. I find mono’s quite tedious and simply don’t want more things to slow down their progress.
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I guess this would take the lead if there was a “Most useless Eterra Monthly” competition. This was… like good for nothing?
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I fully agree. Unfortunately it was already stated in announcement post that Omen Windows are going to be bloating the maps even more:
Omen Windows appear as a new type of random encounter throughout both the campaign and the endgame.
Also why in the campaign? Nemesis, Rift Beasts, Loot Lizards and the like completely disturb and derange the character progression even more than it already is. If campaign is reported as boring, fix the campaign and the dungeon skip system. (Champions I find interesting though because they are “unavoidable” and a danger early on. They don’t feel “bolted on”. Exiled Mages are redundant anyway for the most part. Should be reworked too. So much work huh).
It’s also funny that you can select Weaver Tree nodes or run certain echoes to have Tombs, Nemesis, Rifts appear even more. They appear already on every second map regardless!!
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because it’s a good thing. Why should SEASON mechanics only be like “you can find our new mechanic in a very small part of the season! So don’t fear the mechanic you will most likely not even see it before you stop playing again!”. Season mechanics you can find throughout the game are awesome because EVERYONE who playes the game for hours or days will interact with it.
And you can ignore most of it if you want to. You don’t lose anything when there is ADDITIONAL content… what’s the matter?
To give you something to look forward to in the endgame for example. We spend the most time in endgame anyway. Tombs / Cemeteries don’t appear in campaign and it doesn’t bother either. Also they are not SEASONAL mechanics. They are core mechanics.
Why should anyone forgo additional power. It’s like willingly hampering their character (like Veteran boots). The problem is that it completely breaks one of the fundamental building blocks what makes an ARPG good: character progression.
People have been complaining for years now that the campaign is nothing more than a lengthy tutorial. Every mob / boss just drops dead and you can stand in telegraphed enemy abilities all day long. The power creep is one major reason for that but also Nemesis etc. in the campaign.
These mechanics just feel bolted on and unnatural. In maps it doesn’t matter. But in campaign it does. They appear on almost every campaign map. It breaks the flow so much.
Another example are Rifts. They being in campaign means you can already buy the most powerful item + Evolution’s End before entering or in early endgame annihilating everything soon’ish. (Seriously thoughtless decision to be able to simply buy these powerful primordial items just like that and forgo the excitment and dopamin a significant drop could have caused). No wonder most people play a season for a few days and blaze through content that was month in the making.
Yeah but you lose nothing if it is there in the campaign. Looks at all the mechanics in the campaign and compare them to the same mechanics on 1k+ corruption. Those are 2 different worlds.
Okay my bad… then again this makes your take even worse 
. “Leave the core mechanics out of a core part of a game!”. Makes evven less sense 
.
Yeah why? it’s there so it’s fair game to use it. Almost noone complained about the idotic level of powercreep EHG added with primal gear. It’s completely over the top and an addition in power noone needed implemented in such a boring way it hurt. Why should I leave mages behind? or Lizards? Or Nemesis? As you said it’s a core mechanic .
Yeah it still is so everything that is not stirctly campaign slog is a nice thing to see.
This highly depends how you play the game. If you take the shortest ways possible you see them rarely. if you look into every corner of the map you find a lot of stuff… almost like you have a benefit from exploring but I guess that’s a sideeffect that wasN#t tintentional.
Yeah and you know that how? For all I can tell they might or might not offer a substantional reward. Then agai nit’s EHG and I won’t be suprised if they implement something silly again.
Most people need more then a day to blaze through it. Heck I can’t even force myself to play LE for days. If the next season isn’t staring in a time I have nothing else to do I won’t even touch it because it offers nothing intresting to me and from what I know about it it sounds like an early aprils fool season… wait… maybe they need to fix something and it starts in april and will be more fitting I don’t know,
tldr… having core mechanics in a core part of the game makes complete sense to me.
You loose proper character progression and flow during the campaign. Nemesis gives you too strong items early on, like many uniques and rare items. Loot Lizards + Rift Beast adds runes, glyphs and shards. Rift Beast then adds a strong primordial and Evolutions End.
(On a tangent, what’s EHGs obsession with the Loot Lizards. They are just annoying right now. Diablos loot goblins are exciting because they need to be discovered, are really rare outside of events and give a relative high reward.)
I notice none. They work the same way. Except the addition of the Nemesis egg (but that’s before 1k corruption)
They are core endgame mechanics. In campaign they just feel thrown in there and bolted on. No proper introduction with ties to the campaign, nothing.
There’s a lot of complaint. Or worse, people just left because there’s no point.
It’s what I do, but I see at least one of them every map.
Maybe 3 or 4 days, max. two weeks if you’re not a completely new to the game. That’s just sad.
It means you don’t want proper character progression or can’t be bothered to play the campaign again. Why don’t you just load up a legacy character and experience the new stuff from that?
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The tombs I had in campaign were a piece of cake and with xyz corruption they become a completely beast to tackle. In the campaign I was about to skip them because they bored me out of my mind and at certain corruption levels they became painfull and you need to look out for a lot more stuff.
If you don’t see any different there you are most likely playing better fledged out builds or you have far more skill what isn’t a high bar to pass ^^.
Maybe in your fever dream. You already said they are core mechanics not season mechanics. Now they are core season mechanics? Dou you change the script to suit the point you try to make many more times? Just asking because then I don’t have a good laugh about this conversation but get annoyed.
About primals? Yes. You are the first one who is complaining about additional content to play in a game.
Then you have a different gaming experince then I do. I can only speak for myself and maybe I’m unlucky and you have more luck or it’s confirmation bias but at some points I had arround 5 maps wihtout finding anything while running it down for the targets in the mono.
Worst case were 8 maps without anything “special” when I tried to get a nice round number like 10 ^^. Well 8 is pretty round as well.
We never had proper character progression even if you remove all seasonal, core or core endgame mechanics. The game is a mess, was a mess for a long time and EHG is just putting gasoline into the fire. As I said multiple times… we can’t tell what is fine or a good progression because there is no balancing and no goals set in LE so everything could be completely fine or already to messed up for EHG to get it into controll so it stays shit.
No wonder you were skipping them, because they don’t appear in campaign. Besides that, you’re talking about difficulty. The mechanics don’t change at all except Nemesis egg.
You should read. I replied with “They are core endgame mechanics”. Endgame != Seasonal.
It’s complaints about the powercreep that the primordials provide in response to your earlier statement:
Well, to be fair the complaint is in conjunction with that there’s nothing to do with the power except Uber. But is that nuance all that different to “powercreep”?
I personally found it quite ok. Especially before 1.0. But they dumbed down, let powercreep rampage and adding the endgame mechnics until it became the shambled state it is in now.
Is it okay to break the campaign even more so players are done and over with even faster?
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Hard NO!
That’s a factually wrong statement, introduction of new mechanics inside the campaign has been the downfall of many games in the past… and has caused serious issues for as many as well.
We can even look over at PoE again and see what it did. More and more mechanics were introduced into the campaign, it was cluttered, a complete mess and even nowadays holds some problematic issues still with Betrayal encounters happening and being frustrating at the last Acts as well as Incursion not unlokcing until you actually do it in the campaign area (which it likely is too hard to handle properly for most at that moment since it has a vastly higher difficulty then the area).
A campaign is supposed to be a cohesive solid experience, not a shifting disastreous mess.
It’s a core reason as to why the campaign feels awful, because it’s a patchwork of changes and additions rather then a properly managed experience.
It actually also does.
We have 2 issues which need to be handled in game-design related to it:
If it’s a chosen thing then choice paralysis has to be taken into account, and the psychological measures being taken to reduce the impact of it as much as possible.
If it’s inside the core gameplay loop then it has a risk of ripping you out of your gameplay loop, which is a powerful tool to do and when overused causes immense mental fatigue. This causes perception of the product plummet.
So the generalized argument you make isn’t upholding. It’s a major development point which has been found out over decades and thousands of games until it - for good reason - was established that you gotta manage those things very intricately.
Agreed.
And exactly that, yes… 100%!
I do, I loose the feeling of a cohesive campaign, which is a important thing.
Imagine going into the game as a new player and the game bombards you with a mess of switching difficulty, random mechanics that make no sense to exist for you as nothing’s explained as to why they are there… how do you feel? Confused? Overwhelmed? Will you stay? Probably not.
That’s the wrong way around.
You don’t fix the campaign by adding non-campaign stuff.
You fix the campaign by making the campaign stuff good. Hence by managing walk-times, backtracking, providing - optional - breaks in pacing and making it mechanically solid.
What is talked about here does the opposite.
What?
Core endgame mechanics was stated… not core season.
At least react to the things which @Shathor says and not the words you faultily read and then try to make a point out of that.
That paragraph of yours was utter nonense.
Then don’t argue for throwing more canisters in! 
Argue to stop that crap and make a proper cozy campfire.
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There you go. If it’s not in the campaign it’s about endgame. If it is in the campaign it’s for everyone at all times ^^.
Once you called them core mechanics, then core endgame mechanics how it suitet your fancy. Not in this case yes. Got all mixed up if stuff is now seasonla, core or core endgame stuff 
.
Powercreep in a campaign you need no power for? Had another goo laugh this morning . From my point of view we only have a campaign to hold back people for a few hours because if we could start at some kind of war up mono till level 50 and then go into normal monos people would most likely stop playing even faster.
I said it many times… the game went downhill after 0.8.
Ounds more like a wet noodele… enlighten me!
Name 5
Hundrets of thousands of players playing each season? I guss LE want this done to them as well.
The campaign is a mindless walk in the park. This would only change if they introduce hard stuff to it. As long as the added content is childsplay everything is cohesive. BTW most people don’t want to level in a campaigna again and again because it’s to static… just sayin.
Nah we don’t . If it’s there I do it. Simple as that. Still you can ignore it if you want to, most people simply don’t want to.
Ohhhh your feefees?
On a more serious note… if every game caters to my feelings and not to what is good in the eyes of the devs more games would be much more sucessfull…
OK real serious now… If the devs want it to be in the campaign they made up their mind. There is most likely a reason for it. We talk about unlaid eggs. I haven’t read any news this stuff will be everywhere in the campaign and I’ve read no insightfull news how this is even handled.
I played PoE in the beta then didn’t play it for a long time and came back in season whatever and was happy to face all the different stuff they implemented.
But it’s a core mechanic if it is added to the campaign
Yeah to much back and forth. I call stuff that is introduced seasonal mechanics. The he said they are core mechanics, just to switch it to core endgame mechanics later on while I was still processing core mechanics.
You need to read a lot more to find the back and forth about this but there I clearly missread.
Core defines not where exactly it is positioned.
It only defines that it is in the main progression line.
Otherwise it would be auxiliary. And if it’s a time-based thing it’s seasonal (albeit the mis-use of seasonal as ‘in this season introduced’ is widespread… depending on notion we need to differ between the identical wording for different meanings hence further).
So yeah, easy to mess up there.
Yeah, and that’s the issue. So instead of aggravating the issue we should solve it I would argue
For campaign downfalls because of changes to campaign areas?
Ubisoft open world games function at the same concept, with usually providing a free open world which gives you dozens if not hundreds of side-missions available at once and not hidden and gradually unraveled.
Then we got Dungeon Siege 3, which went the direction of tutorializing the whole campaign it feels, without the great Hack’N’slash feeling that made the series strong at the beginning.
Starfield, which besides being a repetitive shallow game gave players base-building, ship-building, random questing, weapon adjusting and so on all at once, which made it one utter incoherent mess… rather then gradually implementing it at the proper timing.
Black Desert Online is currently failing because of the same reason, decliding steadily as the sheer amount of available mechanics during progression which are more and more outdated and unfinished piling up, leading to many people not even making it to end-game and those that do being underwhelmed as a massive amount of mechanics suddenly just fall away in importance completely.
We can even say that for example Gran Turismo 7 with the changes to the campaign reward system falls into the same category of ‘Changes to established campaign causing downfalls’ falls into that area.
Destiny 2 has lost a massive amount of goodwill because of it as well, be it their horrendous ‘vaulting’ which is entirely removing campaign mechanics or introduction of power level caps and more during progression. It’s turned away a ton of players over the years and was initially received ridiculously well, now it’s fairly strained in staying online, Bungie is overall not doing well at all…
Substancially decreased engagement time and many long-time players and content creators leaving at that time… which was exactly what allowed LE to even exist in the first place as there were ‘things to fix’ and unhappy players without alternative options fitting them better.
Just because you’re the only one with a specific target audience doesn’t mean you do it great… it only means it’s not so bad that people would do something else entirely instead. With competition this changes… and LE was meant - but isn’t remotely still sadly - to be PoE competition. That’s why it got fixed. Thanks EHG for that… but it should’ve been a massive amount of pressure towards GGG instead rather then this mild nudge. That’s what was expected back then.
Exactly!
That’s the problematic point! Fix it, not exerbate it!
Yeah, true.
But at the same time then it’s my task as someone vocal to point out it’s a negative thing to do. Either they listen to me and those mentioning it being an issue or not… the result will be clear when it happens anyway, or over long periods of time.
And obviously there’s a reason for it… unless they’re utterly incompetent I hope they don’t do things without a reason, especially not when their game struggles and has basically no leeway to divert failure in the future.
Abberroth is also core… but you don’t slap him into the campaign Would argue that being bad.
Same with any current mechanics added retrospectively into the campaign.
It was acceptable with mages as they got little effect… it got problematic with Nemesis and went absolutely nonsensical with loot lizards being there.
The campaign was a mess before introducing power creep into it… that part is supposed to be rock-solid and well-feeling after all. Why? Because it’s before the shifting establishing end-game. The earlier in a game the more polished it’s supposed to be to get to that point… and the further along the more polish is needed. In LE it’s a complete mess from start to finish by now… you cannot switch up stuff in content and expect it to stay functional and balanced after all…
You gotta provide a good balanced and mechanically polished experience, which is opposite of a shifting experience.
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having something that makes me walk different paths and what is a fun activity is making stuff better not worse from my point of view.
Sounds like campaign downfalls for your taste. Googeling all those games don’t offer lots and lots complains at all. There are so little it was even hard to find them O.o .
Strange sounds like we talk about different stuff. We still talk about Path of Exile right? Still going strong even when there are plenty of other games or even a second part. PoE is ran down fast if you know what to do. A friend of mine is kind of “Yeah I play the PoE season!” a week later he’s done. That’s PoE for most people and still there are a lot of streamers arround each season… So i still don’t get what you are on about.
When? they wanted to be a game between D3 and PoE. So it’s neither aiming for D3 players or PoE players but the inbetween and there is not much room inbetween ^^.
Yeah and having things that change the pace a bit are welcome to me. Making it even more bland isn’t a good thing what they did with all that different dungeon items to skip even more.
Hey at least I would run even faster if he’s on a map all of the sudden… would increase the speed for me a lot ^^.
But by the other dudes terminology Abberoth is core endgame not core
No problem with either for my part.
Makes no difference for the campaign. The shitshow stays the shitshow and needs a ton of work to beremotely intresting at all. Adding or removing content isn’t doing the trick here.
If this was the case LE would be DOA because it was a mess and a half to begin with.
Just to chime in, he is absolutely not the first.
I have been complaining loudly and repeatedly about the (insert profanity) lizards and nemesis ever since they came out.
Not because the concept is bad, but because they are completely flooding the game ever since the first chapter, and kill many aspects of progression. Shards and runes instantly lost all meaning when the bloody amphibians appeared in each and every early maps by packs of 12. When a nemesis gives me a legendary before the last refuge, progression does lose a lot of meaning.
I understand that you, and probably others, have different points of view and enjoy having 15 different encounters in every maps at level 3. We can agree to disagree.
To me, additional content CAN be good if it comes progressively and adds layers to my character. Step by step.
If everything comes at the same time, it is all mashed up, there is no progression later (because I have already seen everything together in the first maps) and the game becomes incredibly boring. Again, to me. This is not power creep, this is power explosion.
I support at 100% or more the claim that adding all new content to the campaign, from the very first act, is a huge mistake. Thankfully, I have plenty of other things to play, and I haven’t yet seen another developper doing this mistake, at least not to such an extreme degree (except maybe PoE, but I stopped playing that a long time ago).
TLDR: I understand and respect that you have a different opinion. I also understand that I am not EHG’s main target in the way I play a game. But saying “noone ever complained about that” is entirely wrong. It is YOUR point of view. To me, and I suspect others, having everything piled up early in the campaign has completely killed LE, and is the number one reason why I haven’t played since 1.1 and most likely won’t until 1.6 or later, if ever.
PS: Before someone tells me, I realise I can make the choice to avoid the special encounters (except the stupid lizards, they are everywhere and die too fast). But frankly, if I have to avoid most of the content of a game to have fun, I might as well avoid the game altogether.
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Well then I need to use the search function because I was never confronted with this. last time I heared feedback about Lizards was the overabundence in tombs and that was far to much yeah.
I just ask myself one thing… if people who thing the progression is so important and noone should have “nice gear” in the campign befor the “From here on drops nice loot” point in the campign… do you people twink and if so do you use items from your main or is the complaining mostly coming from people who play SSF?
I guess you overexaggerated here. Most I ever had was a mage, a nemesis and something else I already forgot. I skipped the mage because who cares and did the other two things because they were on may path from A to B.
Yeah but as useual… if you add more possibilitys to get more stuff you’ll get more stuff. Like PoE Abyss for the first time. Went out of the first town had an abyss and a very exhausting fight and got a realy nice yellow weapon that carried me a bit. This felt deserved.
On the flip side: Why should I engage with added content that offers nothing to me? This would be a waste of time and I don’t have time to waste.
If you use anything but a belt, weapon and boots in the campign you have a power exploision. For me additions aren’t the problem. The foundation and the baseline of the game is a mess.
I get your point of view but isn’t it a normal thing over time? Every game adds stuff. Maybe D4 is the least offender here because they include their seasonal systems in existing mechanics. Like asmodan spawn instead of a bloodmaiden if you are in a helltide.
On the other hand I maybe have a far to strict lootfilter from the getgo and most likely don’t even have a full set of items reaching end of times.
I have a different question on this topic and I don’t want to make you mad with this and I don’t aim for a low blow. I’m just intrested. If you dislike all that stuff so muhc why do you even bother with the game? I don’t touch it if I have better stuff to do like watching paint dry. I’m just arround here because I haven’t lost all hope yet. To me what you wrote reads a bit like you realy hate that crap and you get a bit angry when you are “flooded” with whatever special stuff that isn’t baseline campaign.
To me it’s simple. Get the campaign done in as little as possible time. I take every advantage I can get because to me LEs campaign is worse then the Borderlands 3 campaign… heck even running PoE down is more fun then LEs campaign so i just want to be done with it. Sometimes I need days to finish the campaign because i can’t force myself to play it.
Reading this made me think of an idea. I’ve seen a number of posts that talk about how easy campaign is and people wanting a VETERAN mode or what not.
Maybe this is one way to implement both that and your concern. Make toggles that turn on each of add-on (for campaign only obviously.) You can turn them all on or one or anywhere in between for a more tailored ‘difficulty.’
Just a spitball idea but it would effectively kill two birds with one stone.
DISCLAIMER: I have NO idea how difficult this would be to code as I’m just a gamer so take it with a grain of salt.
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Why does it matter? Because when I do maps I just want top do maps. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to do that other content ever, it just means I’d rather get keys or such and run those things in a chain when I’m in the mood. They just throw as much as they can at you in each map when they could pull them out into their own thing you can focus on separately.
I know some people complained about just rushing to the map objective and completing it, but I’m definitely not one of those people. If they want close to full map completion they could accomplish that, but they would need to make their maps more linear to avoid annoying backtracking.
They have addressed my issue slightly by letting you place web echoes in the monos. But honestly I’d prefer they be pulled out into their own thing. TL:I has smartly done this with many seasonal themes that are run in parallel to monos. And after seeing the way they did it, Last Epoch’s implementation just seems lazy and makes mapss more tedious over time.
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