I read a lot of debate on various skills being “endgame viable” but there seems to be some disagreement about what that actually means, so I am curious what you all think makes a skill qualify.
Is a skill endgame viable if it’s on your skillbar when you clear all the monolith paths? Is making it onto the ladder enough or does it need to be in the top 50? Top 10? Can a skill only be endgame viable in the context of the other skills on the bar?
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, there’s two very different things that people can disagree about, what is “endgame” & what is “viable”.
I got this build through to the Dragon Emperor (the last monolith boss then) but I don’t there’s anyone that would call that viable.
Then there’s people that think that only Arena is “endgame”.
Definitely agree with you there. I think there’s a degree of people conflating “the best” with “viable” as well, i.e. a skill isn’t the best thing in the toolkit and is therefore “not viable”.
So for me currently “viable” would mean being able to clear every MoF Timeline on empowered without min-maxing the fullest (so let’s say Rare ~T14-16 crafted Items at maximum).
Empwered Timelines is something some “poorly skilled” Players probably don’t even are able to finish with extremely strong skills, so i think it’s fair.
Even some of the most powerfull skill/builds need some player skill to succeed in the higher end spectrum. (but this is a whole other discussion)
IMO there are basically no skills that can’t achieve that, but some obviosuly will have a really haaaard time and/or need way more time and gear to succeed.
So having said that, do you feel like arena progression just isn’t as meaningful, or perhaps that it’s meaningful in a different way?
Full disclosure, I’ve never ranked on the ladder or even come close to to hitting level 100 monos (which is why I haven’t offered an opinion), I’m just genuinely curious.
Not to dive too deep into that other discussion, I really appreciate that quality in this game. The tools don’t work well unless you know how to use them, so to speak.
Agreed and the fact that you can “see all content”, evne though it’s on a “weaker versioN” is nice, so players don’t feel “locked out of content”, they can experience the “whole game” (currently).
I think this is only a personaly preference for me.
I just hate arena, i despise the gameplay cycle.
I to appretiate that there is a leaderboard and obviosuly there are many player that strive for competition and this is great.
It’s just not for me.
The question would be if you want to ask your “viable” question in terms of arena.
What is “viable” in arena? Top 5%? Top 10%? Top 25%?
That’s a very subjective thign and people playing arena actively will have a stronger opinion about this that I have, since i couldn’t care less for arena.
I don’t call single skills viable. Often it’s the synergies with passives or other skills that make a build endgame viable.
There are skills that are very hard to get going on their own or even with synergies. These skills are often called “not viable”.
But I have become very careful with calling skills “not viable”. You can find so many builds/suggestions for skills that you think “suck”. Often it’s the lack of knowledge how to build a skill to use it to it’s full potential.
Viable for endgame for me means that you can complete all content. Doesn’t mean that you can breeze through empowered monos. But the normal ones are doable with viable builds.
Arena is a different story. It’s not my favourite mode so I don’t know how far a good build has to come to be considered viable. 120? 150?
Also in Arena theres no “content”. Your not missing any opportunity to progress your character (besides getting good XP).if you skip Arena. It’s completely optional. No good loot# no story, no interesting mechanics.
I hear you there, and I think the subjectivity of the question is what makes it so interesting to me. I prefer monolith runs personally so my own answer would probably end up leaning that direction. It’s probably a good thing that we have choices available to enable differing opinions of the matter.
I would tend to agree with this, and I love that so much of the functionality of the skills are interwoven with each other to the point where it’s kinda tough to make that call. They don’t exist in a vacuum.
I’m not sure anyone knows. As Heavy noted earlier, the skill of the player is also a factor so it might be tough to just say “well this build can clear 150 waves and so it’s viable”. The player has to make positioning decisions etc. so a build that works for that person may not work for me.
I think endgame viable should be able to clear level 100 timelines with 5-10 modifiers. I’m not saying it should be an easy task though.
But the lack of damage of some spells make it eventually very difficult to clear the boss of a timeline with big modifiers. Even when you are very good you are at dodging his spells and have good muscle memory on his rotations; if it takes more than 10 minutes ta accumulate enough damage to kill him, there will be a time you get hit his by 2-3 of his spells and die.
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