I’m confused, are cycles “relevant” (ie, people enjoy playing them for the economic & leaderboard reset) or not (people don’t enjoy playing them presumably due to their temporary nature)?
I know there’s no single answer so if you feel that cycles aren’t “relevant” & the OP feels that non-cycles aren’t “relevant” then that’s ok.
Edit: In fact, what does “relevant” even mean vis-a-vis a game mode?
Why? Some people like that. Another way of looking at it is that the economies in non-cycles are stagnant & nobody likes stagnant.
Yeah, D2 had no new content but “seasonal” resets for decades.
Sure, but MTX is only for bragging and showing off, nothing else. You can have a player with 0 MTX that has better builds than players that bought them all. There is no real benefit to the season MTX other than saying: I was there and did the content.
It’s like hardcore achievements. PoE has them both in-game and in steam. I’m never going to get them because I don’t play hardcore. Should I get mad at that? I don’t think so.
What if EHG decides at some point to do some event for xmas, for example, and add rewards then. Should players that aren’t able to play that event, for whatever reason, be mad that they don’t get the rewards?
The way I see it, from my experience interacting with lots of ARPG players over the years, you’ll have a group of players that will ALWAYS play seasons, for whatever reasons. And you’ll have a group of players that will ALWAYS play standard, for whatever reasons. The only difference your season/standard model makes is for the large group in between, who might shift either way. This is also the group that is most likely to stop playing if they don’t find enough incentives to commit to either. The other two groups tend to be more stable over time.
The benefit to MTX is having that MTX. If they introduce some cool, flame reaper MTX for Acolyte, that’s only available (for FREE, btw), in Seasonal play, you are forcing anyone who wants that MTX to start a fresh new character, with no stash/runes, in a Seasonal realm, and play as long as it takes (within the season time limit) to achieve it. Unless you’re going to charge a premium to play on a Seasonal serve, I’d call free MTX an unfair advanatage…on top of the bullshit of forcing someone to play the Season to achieve it, in the first place. That’s what I don’t want to see happen – Seasonal-exclusive MTX (or similiar) stuff. If you want Seasonal achievements, that’s fine, that’s simply brag-fodder, with no tangible, substantial value.
As for Holiday-themed MTX. As long as they are available to both playstyles that’s fine. And offered for a reasonable amount of time…not just on Xmas-day and Xmas-eve, for instance. Most MMOs offer those, for 1-2 months (or more) at a time, to give people reasonable timeframes to acquire them. That, and they aren’t locked behind having to kill 200 Uber Bosses, or kill the pinnacle boss, on the hardest difficulty, without taking any damage. Most of them are just log in, do 2 quests and get your loot chest. Simple, fun and easy.
I’m not saying DON"T offer Season/Cycle MTX, but make them available to ALL realms. And even then, I would say make them available in the MTX store down the road. Why should the 12 year old kid, whose parents just let him play online games, not be able to get that cool Axe MTX he sees in town, just because he was too young to play when that Season was offered?
Well, I personally disagree with you in that, even though I respect your opinion.
To me, if you have season-exclusive MTX, that’s fine. If you want the reward, you have to complete the challenge. After all, many players play in season and don’t get the MTX, either because they don’t want to or because they don’t have enough time to get it. Should they be entitled to it anyway just because they played the season?
How would it work to have season rewards available for legacy anyway? If we assume something like PoE model, only with it being available in standard as well, that means that any fully leveld character will get the season rewards within a few days with little effort.
The point of the cycle rewards are that you have to work towards them.
Again, I’m not saying your opinion is wrong, I just see things differently from you. To me an ARPG is all about completing the challenge and getting the reward. Just like if they gave away exclusive MTX for hardcore players, I wouldn’t mind that. I’d never get them because I don’t want to play that, but I don’t immediately think no one should, or because some people put in the work and I don’t, that I should still get it anyway.
In a perfect world, at least for me, Seasons will only have leaderboards for races and the non cycle players get teh same ccontent as well just without the epeen compare thing involved.
I just saw a thumbnail for a video titled: “Veteran D4 player tries PoE for the first time” and it reminded me of this. How can you be a veteran when the game’s only been out for 6 months
It’s for the developer to say, but we as players can have an opinion.
So, “it’s for the developer to say”, means; the game mode has sufficient ROI to justify it’s existence. Things that impact ROI could be, enough players are playing it or asking for it, little per-season effort is needed to sustain it, and ‘other games have it, so we should too’ (I’m sure there are more).
When I say, “it’s not relevant”, I mean, “it’s a game-mode I never play”.
Quite. I played D1 when it came out and I was already an adult (in years, anyway. In maturity I don’t think I’ve reached that yet ).
I’ve always loved ARPGs, which is why I try lots of them out and I periodically return to old ones, like GD, PoE or D2. Sometimes I even go back to D1 for a bit as well.
I honestly like many different systems, so whichever LE does is good with me, as long as I’m having fun.
I mean, MTX rewards aren’t exactly free. You have to start a new character and work towards it. If we look at PoE as an example, You will have to do many chores and a bunch of them are repetitive. And if you want to finish the season rewards for the last piece of the totem you have to grind for many hours. So you’re actually paying with your time and effort. It’s not like you log into the cycle and get a free MTX.
On cycle mtx, why do you feel like cycle mtx isnt part of standard?
Hell most standard players I know in poe play the league. They hop in, solve the challenge puzzle, and then go back to their home in standard. After the league ends, they can use that character in standard if they liked it, or they use it to get some items that are cheaper in a league setting then they are in standard and thus get to port them over.
if you are interested in standard/legacy/eternal what have you, then leagues are just an extension of that. they almost always present you tools/economic advantage to joining in, even if its not strictly new content. They are about the long haul, and the long haul involves lots of ways to getting stronger, including jumping into a temp cycle to gain power for later.
The MTX in the store cost $$$. The ones achieved for jumping through seasonal hoops don’t cost $$$. Hence, they are ‘free’. I mean, you can nitpick time investment is worth money, if you’re that hard-up to be ‘right’…
If you said this about pvp, 10 years ago, you would have been right. But since then, most game developers have listened to their pve players, who didn’t want to be forced to play a style they didn’t want, just to gain power exclusively obtained in pvp. Instead, developers made pvp rewards, pvp-centric, and have little-to-no value outside that playstyle.
I really hope no one is injuring themselves, bending over backwards so much, just to rationalize the view-point of, ‘I want to play seasons, and I want special rewards for playing the way I like to play!’
Just like you’re bending over backwards just to rationalize the view-point of, ‘I don’t want to play seasons, and I don’t want special rewards for those that want to play the way I don’t like to!’?
To be fair, THIS part I actually agree with. If you have to give out ‘rewards’ for playing a certain way than perhaps the ‘certain way’ isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
I like a hamburger with only lettuce, tomato, raw onion and bacon.
You might like a burger with ketchup, cheese and pickles.
Why do you get a free soda with your choice and I don’t?
I have no problems with seasons. I have no problems with people enjoying different ways to play the game. Hell, I don’t even mind people also suggesting/asking for other ways to play the game (like CAN WE SHOW FORGE GUARD SOME LOVE PUHLEASE!!! ) but I do feel this incessant demand for some ‘reward’ tied to everything a bit…off putting. If the style of play is offered (seasons/non-seasons) why should one get a reward over another? Why isn’t the enjoyment of your preferred playstyle enough?
Well, if you’re going to use burgers as an example, then I can counter with one: I don’t like the happy meal options, so I buy other menus. Why do people that like happy meals get a free toy and I don’t?
Ultimately it’s a playstyle preference. Some people like non-seasons because they want to work on their toons for a longer time, they want stability.
Other like the model of having a limited time to chase a reward. What they want is a model like “Here you go. You have 4 months. If you achieve these things, you get a reward.”.
If you want thousands of people to join a cycle reliably, you can’t just say that all they get is a leaderboard, because ultimately only a few dozen will get on that leaderboard. You need to give incentives to the rest of the thousands to play your cycle. Otherwise, there will be no cycles and all you’ll get is legacy play, with new stuff being added whenever.
Every PoE league has thousands of players. A few dozen are there because they’re very competitive and are after the leaderboards. They want to be the first to 100, they want to be the first to beat ubers, etc.
The rest of the people are there for the mechanics (which are exclusive to season in PoE) and/or for the rewards. If PoE released the mechanics into standard at the same time and if they had no rewards, seasons would end up with hundreds of players, instead of thousands. And seasons in PoE would end.
I’m not sure comparing the kids menu choice to the adults menu choice is the best comparison but if it works for you ok…
Why not? I prefer legacy, as you already stated, because of stability, long deiberate advancement of my characters? I.e. game play.
Why aren’t seasons about game play i.e. ladder boards, speed chases, etc. instead of special “happy meal toy rewards?”
Those same “prizes” can easily be made available for legacy players by putting them into already existing challenges. New dragon pet for season 3? At end of the season, that dragon pet could become available finding it as an egg in an Exiled Mage chest random drop. So those of us in legacy who like hunting Exiled Mages would have something new, but based on established play style, as well.
DIFFERENT play styles and stuff like that I am 100% all for but anything remotely loot-based in a loot-based game should not be gated. And yes, I’m well aware there are gated items like specific arena drops that force you to play them. I’m not an arena fan. Not crazy about those items being gated which is why I’ve never gone after them (I do have the belt because I did arenas for a few hours before I got bored.)
Actually, I’ve heard many, many, MANY seasonal players over the years referring to standard as kids play, so I guess it does…
Because, as I mentioned, only a very small number of people actually chase the leaderboards. If you’re going to race the top 100 for something, you won’t have 10k playhers doing it, because most of the players are aware that they would never stand a chance. And almost no one will go into a new season thinking: I was 2546th last season, let’s see if I can do better.
Other than a very small percentage that are in it for the challenge, and a larger (but still small) percentage that are in it for the fresh economy (which can also be viewed as part of the challenge), most players will only play season if they have some incentive, either via exclusive mechanics or exclusive rewards.
I can assure you that if you do cycles equal legacy with just leaderboards extra, you will end up with just a few hundred people playing it and cycles will soon end.
I never said this nor do I believe it should occur. Seasons should definitely be incentivized DURING the season. I just do not believe this incentivizing should be ‘rewards’ gained within the game tied strictly to a certain STYLE of game play that then carry into legacy that legacy people cannot obtain. There are plenty of other things they can do to incentivize seasons - there’s been mention of many in this thread alone as well as on other threads.
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