Currency to respec passives and mastery

Feedback and Suggestions
1

Please make the same system as poe for respeccing passives and masteries.

The game is about having fun. I dont think its fun to be needing to re leveling a Class just to get the benefits of the Mastery bonus and skill you get.

At the moment iam playing forge guard and after trying this class i noticed i like fire.
Now i see Paladin is more benefical in this regard and gives a skill i like more. If i want to change to this however i need to make a new character.
Not to be rude but i think this is just bad game design/decision.

We have to level so many characters already and spend time. Please change this.

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Also kindly disagree here (sorry i already disagreed on your last thread :imp:)

I do think completly opposite. I personally do want to have choices that matter. I absolutely despise games where all decisions are basically hot swappable things like skills, masteries, sub classes etc.

LE already has such a respec friendly system in place, which literally everything is respeccable with ease. Except the mastery, and please let this be at least the only thing that somehow matters.

A game becomes very boring for me if all my decisions are just some “clicks” that can be changed easily.

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3

This is a controversial topic that has been raised a lot over the last few months. And it’s hard to explain to people why I really like a system that is way less forgiving in that regard as other games.

The Sentinel in the first place may seem as a class that as very much in common over all its masteries. VK, FG and Pala look the same on the surface, just different mastery bonus and skill pool. I think there’s more in it that it seems though.

Masteries of other classes have bigger differences, like mage being a ranged Sorcerer or melee Spellblade. Acolyte is minion Necro or melee/spell focused Lich. Primalist can be shape shifting Druid, Companion BM or spellcasting/melee Shaman.

What I want to point out is that despite masteries being part of a certain class, they are or can be very different within the same class. Other games may have implemented Spellblade/Sorcerer, Beastmaster/Druid, … (and so on) as different classes right away.

Personally I find it hard to even realign a single mastery like my FG converting from a melee build to a throwing build. The respeccing along with swapping all that long collected and synergizing gear can be a mess and is a very tedious task for me. So I’m rather releveling than respeccing a build.

Besides I like that there’s alway a build that I haven’t played, yet, and that I have to rebuild from scratch. I love the progression from level 1 to 70 and have played dozens of different characters. It gives me the feeling of content that still lies in front of me and I have to explore.

For me it doesn’t feel tedious to replay the game. I play for the sake of playing and as long as I’m having fun I don’t see a releveling as a waste of time. Objectively, laying games in general is a waste of time, as is watching films or listening to music.

When people say that it’s boring to play the same content with a different character again then I cannot share these feelings. It’s like never listening to a song you already heard for a second or third time. Or skip to the end of a film you already know.

For me the journey itself is the destination.

I know that people have different opinions about this and I don’t have the intention to convince anybody. Just trying to explain that and why I don’t agree with the OP.

Cheers :blush:

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Agreed. In Diablo II and Sacred, you couldn’t respec and had to start character again if you made a mistake in skills.

Agreed. I also like choices that matter and have no issue levelling a new char if I want.

However, we are in Beta right now and maybe EHG could relax the reins a little to give players more flexibility to test their game.

So allowing to swap between Masteries on the fly and resetting passives with a click at no cost might not be a bad thing - for testing purposes, only during Beta.

After all, there will be a complete character wipe at release. Or at least the beta chars will be in a different ladder/server or whatever and we’ll all be starting new chars anyway.

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Beside fun which is your guys right to think its fun it costs a lot of time.
It seems like you guys got all the time to level new characters.
Well i don’t and i don’t like having to level a new character because iam a new player and just started playing the game. Afterwards i noticed oh hey they take this and this very seriously and oh i expected this game to have currency like POE to change this.

I had to check the forums for some things even to know if i could respec my mastery etc.
Yes in certain aspects i could have known but i guess this game is really for people who have enough time and are not beginners.

Btw i notice that RawSuicide and Heavy both like hardcore and both are community testers. I think its a problem if you guys can’t see the other side of people not liking it.
Just saying i like it because of this sounds strange to me. Your not reacting on my points why i think its tedious. The only thing you say no its not tedious to me and why you like it.

Iam a father with kids and i also want to enjoy this game. If they have a lot of options for hardcore fine to me. I just dont like this approach and would have like way more signs and information about this game being so Heavily punishing in these few aspects that i mentioned.

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All offline chars will stay offline chars, there will not be any wipe.
We just need to start a new char once Online is implemented.

Yes we are in a beta, but not as deep, that we need a free respec system for each player.
LE is already in a “more than 100% playable” state, with alot of content and systems like respeccing/changing build/layout is a core part of the gameplay experience.

If you don’t have as much time, as some other players. Focus on testing things that you personally really really want to do. The Beta/EA will still last long enough even for more casual players to test everythign they need to give feedback.

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You might disagree thats no problem.
However you can make something easier well still containing meaningfull descisions in my opinion. They could for example make it really hard to respec a mastery.
It could something people could make a goal out of it. I certainly would try to reach that goal while still playing endgame instead of needing to do the story line again.

Or really high cost to respec a mastery. By the way, what would hurt you if they had this system? You dont need to do it if you dont want to…

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I’m a community member since the start of LEs EA. So I saw a lot of debates on this exact topic. And the result is always the same: People are going to devalue the opinion of others because they cannot understand the point of view of the other side. This is no topic that can be decided by reasoning and objective research. This is pure subjectivity!

Now you do exactly the same. You write down your own opinion and begin to devalue the opinion if others. Just because I have a Community Tester badge doesn’t make my opinion less viable.

The problem is that my badge is obviously leading you to false assumptions.

Now I will tell you some true facts:

  • I am father of 2 girls
  • married
  • employed
  • owner of a house and garden that wants to be cared for
  • team captain of a table tennis team
  • involved in a sports club and a organisation for nature conservancy
  • currently I have around 650 hours in LE (that is the only game I can afford to play since having not that much time for gaming) since LE EA April 2019 - that’s roughly 1.2h playtime per day (this has shifted a bit towards playing about 1-3 hours a day currently since the beginning)

Does this look like a bio of a hardcore gamer to you?

Now I became a Community Tester of a game I really started to like and have given a lot of feedback.

Being a Community Tester doesn’t mean I have to restrain my own opinion. It’s the exact opposite.

Also:

  • I’m no professional game tester
  • I’m no professional moderator

So I won’t start to pretend I am. Instead I am a customer like all the others here, giving feedback about a product I own. And it’s my own opinion.

If you don’t feel represented by me in our elitist group of Community Testers, this is not my problem. Go on represent yourself by yourself as you already do.

Are you afraid that my opinion does weight more that yours in the eyes of EHG because of my badge? I really doubt that.

I’d like to see my opinion being respected and treated equally by people in this community despite my forum badge.

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I am SO on board with this. I was the guy in Grim Dawn that leveled, legitimately, a level 100 character in every class, single mastery, classless and then repeated it in Hardcore as well. :smiley: I’m a campaign, story player. While I do endgame stuff I will gladly sit in the campaign. It’s just fun for me.

Everyone has their own ideas about fun. If we share them, EHG gets to see the various sides and pull their info from the pool. No one on these boards past or present gets everything ‘their’ way. But the feedback is valuable. Good and bad.

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This is a REALLY big presumption. Everyone starts as a beginner. Some people have more time (at present) to play and yet still do it extremely casually (looks at myself in the mirror). Some folks put it less time and glock the game’s style/mechanics and squeeze it for all it’s worth.

If this game where NOT for beginners I can assure you they would have left the original skill respec mechanic in the game and they wouldn’t be working so hard to make changes to tool-tips and clarifying stuff as the game moves forward in BETA.

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I will say, with all due respect, that you Community Testers can be pretty. . .cliquey. . .
That being said, I wouldn’t mind a way similar to PoE, to reselect a mastery class. There’s no way to know what a mastery is like, until you try it, and who likes to just delete and restart a new character?

You guys that like to say:

That’s great and all, but you can also CHOOSE not to participate in a mastery respec if you didn’t want to. The point is that it would be a nice option for it to exist. Not everyone finds boredom in this. And not everyone has time for it.

The general vibe I get from you guys is, “Hey, I got mine, so screw the rest of you.”
While I’m the style that’s like, “Let’s make the game appeal to a broader crowd.”

I know you guys are pretty decent in reality, and I respect everyone’s opinions, mostly, but there are more ways than just the one you see. Pan back and take a loot at the bigger picture for everyone, not just yourself.
Especially you guys with the “Community Tester” tags.
In the end, I know that basically all of us want, is for this game to be successful, but please open yourselves to other players’ points of view.

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Can we please just stop calling out “Community Testers”…

All communtiy testers come from wastly different background and we DO NOT share the same opinions on all matters. (I can assure you, there are alot of topic’s we do not agree about at all)

It just happens that @XLVI_carpo and @TriKster and me for example have a very similar mindset on certain things, and we do also interact with each other alot outside of the LE forums, but that was already the case way before the CT Program.

Yes i agree, i already suggested something to “test out” skills and masteries, before choosing them. Something like a “Trainings Room”, where you have unlimited respec and instant lvl 20 skills, they could combine that with the Time Travel aspect, like you travel into the futureand explore your possible future self.

That is a very weak argument IMO. It takes away the weight of my choice regardless if i chose to use the respec option or not. Just knowing that each and everybody can do things with some clicks to change such a drastic thing, does take away alot of the immersion and character progression for me.

I do respect everyones opinion, especially new player ones. And i do try to see it from different perspectives. I can clearly see why some beginners would like to have more freedom in respeccing.
But for me personally, it would affect the way i play the game in a negative way.
Everything i ever stated was my opinion and no hard facts.

Systems like this CANNOT be objetively “good” or “bad”, it’s just not possible.

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How is it a weak argument? I’ll give a couple examples:
1- I hate the arena. It’s not my playstyle. I’d like it more if there were checkpoints so I could take a break and restart where I left off, but that’s not how it is in this game.
You don’t see me asking for it to be removed. I don’t like it, so I CHOOSE not to participate in it. It’s not forced on me, except for the quest to introduce it. I go in, do 1 wave, and leave for completion.

2- I hate Hardcore in every game but PoE, but I still barely like it. You won’t see me complaining that because it’s in a game, I couldn’t bear to play the game. Again, I CHOOSE to not participate in Hardcore, SSF, or masochist modes.

I understand that people enjoy these types of play, and I want them to be included. The more interest EHG can capture in players, the more successful the game can be. You choose things that could limit the player base.

It’s very hard to do this, because you’re all very vocal, and you all coincidentally seem to agree with each other. I’m not saying you get together and conspire, but perhaps the Community Testers could use more diversity.

I respect the sheer amount of in game knowledge you have, but the way you generally all swoop in and shut down other people’s ideas, is not cool or fair.

14

I think you might be interested to know that “us community testers” are a lot less homogenous than you appear to think. We aren’t all streamers or even necessarily highly skilled players. What we are all is very passionate about LE and giving the devs our honest feedback from a multitude of different viewpoints (apart from Heavy/Raw/Trickster, they are clearly just alternate personalities, have you ever seen them in the same room at the same time? I know I haven’t!) so the devs can get different views on whatever they’ve given us to test.

If we are a bit clique-y that’s likely from all being in the same position of having access to stuff we can’t talk about.

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15

Thank you for your response, and I just addressed some things to Heavy that also apply to what you said. Again, maybe Community Testers should have more diversity in player types and viewpoints (not me please. I’m too hotheaded. I know.)

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I think i understand how it sometimes can feel, when me, raw and trikster for this example contribute alot to discussions. We are all very active on the forums.

But i can assure you, there are ALOT of different Community Testers… like Llama sai,d we are more diverse than you might expect, most of the other ones are just not as active on the forums.

I do never intended to “shut down” anyoens idea.

But i think a discussion should invovle all sides. In this case @meesterg and me have like compeltely opposite viewpoints.

That does not mean i want his idea to be shut down completly. I jsut get involed in various discussions to contribute my opinion and the devs job is to find a middleground between alot of different parties.

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But we are pretty diverse. Sarno said they’d likely be adding more testers in the future and I’m sure that if they think there are “gaps” in the makeup of the group of testers that the devs will look to fill them. Though that doesn’t mean thinks will change much.

Us testers also disagree with each other in private.

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But given that this is still in BETA we ALL now have the opportunity to put in our likes/dislikes/wishes/won’ts so that EHG can gain some insight and make better informed decision with the plethora of feedback. Because maybe they do something that means you don’t have to CHOOSE not to do it instead maybe it’s something that you will want to do?

In the long run, sure their will be things we choose not to do, I’ve never been a big end-game person. I do it, and enjoy it from time to time but it’s not the bread and butter where I like to spend my time.

Most of the comments from the ‘testers’ I see almost always are along the lines “I like this and this and this. I don’t like this and this and this.” I’ve virtually never seen one of them say “You’re idea is bad, stop talking and do it our way.” Granted, sometimes this has happened but those times are really few and far between that I don’t think the ‘clique’ comment is really grounded. You can certainly feel otherwise but as another perspective from someone who ISN’T a community tester, I generally don’t feel this way.

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I shouldn’t generalize, and I apologize for that. It’s certainly not all Community Testers, and certainly not only them. But I do stand by the feeling of cliqueyness sometimes.

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Absolutely fair and no hard feelings from my side at all. The community testers certainly don’t need me defending them, they can handle themselves, - well, except @Llama8 who won’t share his chocolate and that is just all sorts of wrong). :smiley:

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