You might disagree thats no problem.
However you can make something easier well still containing meaningfull descisions in my opinion. They could for example make it really hard to respec a mastery.
It could something people could make a goal out of it. I certainly would try to reach that goal while still playing endgame instead of needing to do the story line again.
Or really high cost to respec a mastery. By the way, what would hurt you if they had this system? You dont need to do it if you dont want to…
I’m a community member since the start of LEs EA. So I saw a lot of debates on this exact topic. And the result is always the same: People are going to devalue the opinion of others because they cannot understand the point of view of the other side. This is no topic that can be decided by reasoning and objective research. This is pure subjectivity!
Now you do exactly the same. You write down your own opinion and begin to devalue the opinion if others. Just because I have a Community Tester badge doesn’t make my opinion less viable.
The problem is that my badge is obviously leading you to false assumptions.
Now I will tell you some true facts:
I am father of 2 girls
married
employed
owner of a house and garden that wants to be cared for
team captain of a table tennis team
involved in a sports club and a organisation for nature conservancy
currently I have around 650 hours in LE (that is the only game I can afford to play since having not that much time for gaming) since LE EA April 2019 - that’s roughly 1.2h playtime per day (this has shifted a bit towards playing about 1-3 hours a day currently since the beginning)
Does this look like a bio of a hardcore gamer to you?
Now I became a Community Tester of a game I really started to like and have given a lot of feedback.
Being a Community Tester doesn’t mean I have to restrain my own opinion. It’s the exact opposite.
Also:
I’m no professional game tester
I’m no professional moderator
So I won’t start to pretend I am. Instead I am a customer like all the others here, giving feedback about a product I own. And it’s my own opinion.
If you don’t feel represented by me in our elitist group of Community Testers, this is not my problem. Go on represent yourself by yourself as you already do.
Are you afraid that my opinion does weight more that yours in the eyes of EHG because of my badge? I really doubt that.
I’d like to see my opinion being respected and treated equally by people in this community despite my forum badge.
I am SO on board with this. I was the guy in Grim Dawn that leveled, legitimately, a level 100 character in every class, single mastery, classless and then repeated it in Hardcore as well. I’m a campaign, story player. While I do endgame stuff I will gladly sit in the campaign. It’s just fun for me.
Everyone has their own ideas about fun. If we share them, EHG gets to see the various sides and pull their info from the pool. No one on these boards past or present gets everything ‘their’ way. But the feedback is valuable. Good and bad.
This is a REALLY big presumption. Everyone starts as a beginner. Some people have more time (at present) to play and yet still do it extremely casually (looks at myself in the mirror). Some folks put it less time and glock the game’s style/mechanics and squeeze it for all it’s worth.
If this game where NOT for beginners I can assure you they would have left the original skill respec mechanic in the game and they wouldn’t be working so hard to make changes to tool-tips and clarifying stuff as the game moves forward in BETA.
I will say, with all due respect, that you Community Testers can be pretty. . .cliquey. . .
That being said, I wouldn’t mind a way similar to PoE, to reselect a mastery class. There’s no way to know what a mastery is like, until you try it, and who likes to just delete and restart a new character?
You guys that like to say:
That’s great and all, but you can also CHOOSE not to participate in a mastery respec if you didn’t want to. The point is that it would be a nice option for it to exist. Not everyone finds boredom in this. And not everyone has time for it.
The general vibe I get from you guys is, “Hey, I got mine, so screw the rest of you.”
While I’m the style that’s like, “Let’s make the game appeal to a broader crowd.”
I know you guys are pretty decent in reality, and I respect everyone’s opinions, mostly, but there are more ways than just the one you see. Pan back and take a loot at the bigger picture for everyone, not just yourself.
Especially you guys with the “Community Tester” tags.
In the end, I know that basically all of us want, is for this game to be successful, but please open yourselves to other players’ points of view.
Can we please just stop calling out “Community Testers”…
All communtiy testers come from wastly different background and we DO NOT share the same opinions on all matters. (I can assure you, there are alot of topic’s we do not agree about at all)
It just happens that @XLVI_carpo and @TriKster and me for example have a very similar mindset on certain things, and we do also interact with each other alot outside of the LE forums, but that was already the case way before the CT Program.
Yes i agree, i already suggested something to “test out” skills and masteries, before choosing them. Something like a “Trainings Room”, where you have unlimited respec and instant lvl 20 skills, they could combine that with the Time Travel aspect, like you travel into the futureand explore your possible future self.
That is a very weak argument IMO. It takes away the weight of my choice regardless if i chose to use the respec option or not. Just knowing that each and everybody can do things with some clicks to change such a drastic thing, does take away alot of the immersion and character progression for me.
I do respect everyones opinion, especially new player ones. And i do try to see it from different perspectives. I can clearly see why some beginners would like to have more freedom in respeccing.
But for me personally, it would affect the way i play the game in a negative way.
Everything i ever stated was my opinion and no hard facts.
Systems like this CANNOT be objetively “good” or “bad”, it’s just not possible.
How is it a weak argument? I’ll give a couple examples:
1- I hate the arena. It’s not my playstyle. I’d like it more if there were checkpoints so I could take a break and restart where I left off, but that’s not how it is in this game.
You don’t see me asking for it to be removed. I don’t like it, so I CHOOSE not to participate in it. It’s not forced on me, except for the quest to introduce it. I go in, do 1 wave, and leave for completion.
2- I hate Hardcore in every game but PoE, but I still barely like it. You won’t see me complaining that because it’s in a game, I couldn’t bear to play the game. Again, I CHOOSE to not participate in Hardcore, SSF, or masochist modes.
I understand that people enjoy these types of play, and I want them to be included. The more interest EHG can capture in players, the more successful the game can be. You choose things that could limit the player base.
It’s very hard to do this, because you’re all very vocal, and you all coincidentally seem to agree with each other. I’m not saying you get together and conspire, but perhaps the Community Testers could use more diversity.
I respect the sheer amount of in game knowledge you have, but the way you generally all swoop in and shut down other people’s ideas, is not cool or fair.
I think you might be interested to know that “us community testers” are a lot less homogenous than you appear to think. We aren’t all streamers or even necessarily highly skilled players. What we are all is very passionate about LE and giving the devs our honest feedback from a multitude of different viewpoints (apart from Heavy/Raw/Trickster, they are clearly just alternate personalities, have you ever seen them in the same room at the same time? I know I haven’t!) so the devs can get different views on whatever they’ve given us to test.
If we are a bit clique-y that’s likely from all being in the same position of having access to stuff we can’t talk about.
Thank you for your response, and I just addressed some things to Heavy that also apply to what you said. Again, maybe Community Testers should have more diversity in player types and viewpoints (not me please. I’m too hotheaded. I know.)
I think i understand how it sometimes can feel, when me, raw and trikster for this example contribute alot to discussions. We are all very active on the forums.
But i can assure you, there are ALOT of different Community Testers… like Llama sai,d we are more diverse than you might expect, most of the other ones are just not as active on the forums.
I do never intended to “shut down” anyoens idea.
But i think a discussion should invovle all sides. In this case @meesterg and me have like compeltely opposite viewpoints.
That does not mean i want his idea to be shut down completly. I jsut get involed in various discussions to contribute my opinion and the devs job is to find a middleground between alot of different parties.
But we are pretty diverse. Sarno said they’d likely be adding more testers in the future and I’m sure that if they think there are “gaps” in the makeup of the group of testers that the devs will look to fill them. Though that doesn’t mean thinks will change much.
Us testers also disagree with each other in private.
But given that this is still in BETA we ALL now have the opportunity to put in our likes/dislikes/wishes/won’ts so that EHG can gain some insight and make better informed decision with the plethora of feedback. Because maybe they do something that means you don’t have to CHOOSE not to do it instead maybe it’s something that you will want to do?
In the long run, sure their will be things we choose not to do, I’ve never been a big end-game person. I do it, and enjoy it from time to time but it’s not the bread and butter where I like to spend my time.
Most of the comments from the ‘testers’ I see almost always are along the lines “I like this and this and this. I don’t like this and this and this.” I’ve virtually never seen one of them say “You’re idea is bad, stop talking and do it our way.” Granted, sometimes this has happened but those times are really few and far between that I don’t think the ‘clique’ comment is really grounded. You can certainly feel otherwise but as another perspective from someone who ISN’T a community tester, I generally don’t feel this way.
I shouldn’t generalize, and I apologize for that. It’s certainly not all Community Testers, and certainly not only them. But I do stand by the feeling of cliqueyness sometimes.
Absolutely fair and no hard feelings from my side at all. The community testers certainly don’t need me defending them, they can handle themselves, - well, except @Llama8 who won’t share his chocolate and that is just all sorts of wrong).
I get both sides of thia but I astill think releveling an alt after the first toon in the normal game mode is already a joke with all the items that drop and you are able to keep. The only time consuming thing is to get the idols you want but in the long run there are so little idols that reraly matter.
On the other hand I understand when people say they don’t want to level each class 3 times foe every mastery but then again I don’t know a lot of people who play a lot of alts if they have little time.
I think respeccing masteries will make things to easy from my personal view but there is always a way to implement a questchain that takes as long as creating a new toon ^^.
That’s the way you want to see things. Everytime you see community testers agree with each other you think they team up against you. But you are drawing parallels where there are none.
Your generalizing things and are not able to look behind that stupid badge! I agreed and disagreed with opinions long before I became a tester. I don’t see any reason stop now.
It’s already happening that I hesitate to post on topics where others “of my tester bodies” have already posted because it may look cliquey to people like you.
Where do you see the difference to your behaviour? You’re posting suggestions and think everybody should accept them or ignore them if they don’t like it. But that’s not how the would functions. If I would ignore everything that i don’t like, I’d ask myself why I even am participating in a beta testing program. Why can’t you take our position and anticipate that this kind of change you suggested affects us and that it’s not just “ignore that feature”.
Why having healthbars for example? Let’s just have a message that days “Theoretically you are dead. Please choose to go on if you feel this mechanic is too hardcore. If you are a Community Tester please choose ‘try again’!” Would this please you?
Actually re-leveling to choose a class spec is good ! it is good to have at least a definite choice for our character decision and i see it more like a whole class than just a subclass the game is not about 4 class but 12 class with 4 character…
Im not specially about hardcore thing (even through sometime i have some fun with it im getting bored pretty quickly…) but i simply doesnt think re-leveling a char to get a new class is an hardcore thing…
But i will benefit this thread to write down some of my through about speciallisation… thing about blessing. Would it be more enjoyable if blessing drop a bead at the end of a timeline and we have to put them in manually ? like that it seem less a farmable content but i think not ! if bead of blessing drop in the end of a timeline yes we could have it for good but its an occasion to make different rarity about it and added more content to the end game by using this mechanic… simply thinking about the fact “Where to put them in ?” at the end of the timeline quest ? in the invotory ? or a whole new quest to unlock “bead casting” and timeline will be just to drop different “bead of blessing”…
Its just a through this is also why i just benefit this thread to post about it while we are talking about character spec but also and specially because i want to manify the community testing people by challenging them about new idea (because i know you tester can bring an idea like that to some real through process and see if it can be good or not )
My feedback is players should be allowed to respec their Mastery if they choose at a certain cost -maybe a rare item consumable book that can allow a respec
I like to play and progress a character but I also like to completely respec a potentially failed character which I simply dont want to delete and can potentially ‘fix’ them.
Im playing Poe Heist, my second character has had a complete respec 4 times now to totally different builds. I would of already quit the league if I had to reroll 4 times to test. Some builds need large amounts of passive points to function well or feel good to play
The thing is adding in a Mastery respec doesnt actually harm anyone else, you either use it or ignore it im not seeing the issue however it can be demotivating as hell to know you potentially picked and invested a large amount of time into the ‘wrong choice’ and it could be fixed quite easily at the cost of once again your own time from farming
Same goes on the other side. if you could just respect classes at will, what would be the point of even having mastery classes? you dont see this in grimdawn. I like the hardlock identities the way they are. IT harms the identity and integreity of picking and playing something unique.
Agree on the subjectivity points you made. Still disagree about the perspective you guys seem to have on beginners though. You just say i disagree because of … … without saying why or why not it might be beneficial for other type of players.
By the way i stated enough times in my posts that i actually like the game having hardcore aspects. I just want the game to be widely oriented. I will keep saying that some of you community testers seem really focused on your own opinion without neglating to others. You are saying that iam doing the same but if you look on my reactions on different posts of others youll see thats not true at all. Iam doing it here since iam trying to make a point of you doing it in my post.
I’m a campaign, story player. While I do endgame stuff I will gladly sit in the campaign. It’s just fun for me.
(because i know you tester can bring an idea like that to some real through process and see if it can be good or not