Cautionary tale

Thank you. Well said. Some of these people are not emotionally and mentally equipped for this conversation while also holding strong beliefs and judgements. Not a good combination for worthwhile discourse.

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The thing what you’re doing here though, is assuming that someone clarifying their pronouns is an absolute indicator that this is the dominant thing within their lifestyle, and all choices in life are subject to that overlying ideology. You’re even assuming that clarifying pronouns is a lifestyle in itself, and not just some linguistic information for the reader.

By that reasoning, your username tells me you are completely obsessed with tentacle hentai and should really go seek out a therapist instead of being on these forums.

For the record, I’ve met plenty of religious people who do respect pronouns and act kindly towards those that aren’t of their own religion, they aren’t all extremists.

You’re also falsely attributing religious attributes to gender such as:

  • Physical transcendance: Refers to physical plane of existance, not the medical meaning.
  • Moral code: Only applies to the people within that religion.
  • Foundational texts: John Money, really??? Mr. “gender conversion therapy” Money?
  • Gatherings: If you’re talking pride parades, that’s more protest than worship. By that reasoning, Jan 6 was a cult meeting.

So I agree with Chaustrologic: The stance you’re defending on gender-identity being a pseudo-religion is offensive, insulting and downright dumbass bigotry. It has no place in a tolerant society and if you’re defending it, neither do you. That’s my religion.

#JesusWasAnAlly

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Just because you feel that someone in the discussion is not “emotionally and mentally equipped for the conversation while also holding strong beliefs and judgements” doesn’t mean that that person isn’t you. One always has to be mindful that oneself might be the fuckwit in the scenario, not the other person.

Really? Where did that come from? I’d have assumed that he was a religious fanatic. When I google the user name without the _ I get mostly stuff to do with the Invictus Games & Prince Harry.

I was replying to the larger-than-normal squids fan. Hence the tentacles.

For that other guy, if you separate the words it’s a servant of god and the latter roughly meaning “unbeatable”. So religious dude that assumes he’s always gonna be on the right end. At least it tracks for his posts :smiley:

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Means nothing to me I’m afraid. Due to being on the wrong side of the pond I assume.

Yeah, that always ends well for everybody else. Often involving large bonfires with big stakes in the middle. Ironic given the central theme of most of the new testament.

Nope I never made any such assumptions, stated or implied. That’s all you buddy. Someone else said ‘their life identity’ which I was replying to, so maybe that’s where you got such an idea? But that wasn’t me.

You appear to be quite mistaken here. Transcends means something which goes beyond the range or limits of something. So Gender Identity, being outside of the bounds of physical and biological markers and being instead someone’s deeply personal sense of self as it relates to gender, transcends the physical. The soul, being more than the body or mind but rather an immortal spirit, transcends the physical. The verbiage is appropriate.

Moral codes are a set of rules or guidelines that someone must follow in order to live a life that is ‘good’ or be a ‘good person’. They have no restrictions in terms of being associated with a religion or with people within a religion. The verbiage is appropriate.

And yep, John Money. Do some research, he was the one who formulated, defined, and coined the term gender role and later expanded it to gender identity / role. You could also look at others who pioneered the field such as Robert Stoller or Harry Benjamin but Money was the largest contributor. I’m certainly not singing his praises nor am I tying those who believe in the concept of gender identity to his failings, simply indicating the concept started from somewhere, originating in the 50s and 60s with his work, among others. Much like Christianity started with the concepts espoused by Jesus and recorded in the works of his disciples. The history is accurate.

I never used the verbiage worship, that’s you. A hallmark of religion is Community. The gathering of those sharing the same beliefs in fellowship. Pridefests are a community celebration of LBGTQ+ Pride; events that seek to acknowledge and celebrate the LGBTQ+ community, by their own description.

Remember, bigotry is stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion which differs from one’s own. I’ve never expressed any intolerance of any kind, in part because that would be a dickish thing to do, and in part because that’s not how I feel. Folks are certainly welcome to believe that they have an inner identity as male, female, or something else, separate and distinct from biology. They are welcome to believe they have lived past lives, or that they have chakra, a soul, or that their nature is defined by the astrological sign under which they were born. I have zero issues with folks believing as they wish, adhering to the practices they wish, and celebrating their identity and ideology as they wish.

I do not believe that folks should face discrimination, prejudice, or hatred on the basis of their beliefs. I freely recognize that decrying those who think differently than you do as a danger to society is, historically, the justification for many human right abuses and atrocities. It’s being used in Russia right now to justify the targeted abuse of LGBTQ individuals for example. But please keep in mind, I’m not the one espousing the idea that those who believe differently from me have no place in society. You are.

If you cannot stand the idea of someone having ideas which differ from your own, and having a world view that does not align with yours, they are not the ones who are then expressing bigotry and intolerance.

That is a very reductionist way of looking at it. By your definition, lots of things are like a religion. Happiness, capitalism, science, democracy, etc.
Even war.

At most I would accept you trying to equate gender identity with a philosophy. As a religion is a stretch.

EDIT: I should point out that I don’t believe it’s either. Gender identity, to me, is physiological. Your brain produces chemicals and they cause you to feel attraction or repulsion towards certain people. This can also include your own body. Which is why I said that it’s not something they choose, it’s something they are.

Each of those certainly has one or more traits in common; happiness can be argued as having a metaphysical component though in truth it’s more physiological; capitalism can be argued as having a moral code; science can be argued as having a community; democracy can be argued as having foundational texts. But none of them bear nearly as many commonalities or hallmarks, and while you certainly could argue them as pseudo religions it’d be a weak argument at best. Much like one could argue a forgery of the mona lisa as a pseudo masterpiece and have a compelling argument (it’s definitionally correct) but a child’s drawing of their parents would be a poor argument as it doesn’t bear nearly as much similarity.

In terms of a philosophy, the key differences between a philosophy and a religion is that while both deal with the nature of the universe and reality, a philosophy doesn’t have a moral code or community element. There aren’t nihilist fests and doing certain actions don’t make you a good or bad person. So indeed I’d say that’s a fair way to look at it but I’d argue it’s closer to a religion than a philosophy. Though again I do not believe it to be a religion, simply that it has characteristics in common with them.

As far as a physiological component for gender identity, your view there is certainly not one which is universally held. It is often considered a fundamental tenant that someone could have a gender identity of male, then the next month a gender identity of female, then the month after a gender identity of male, and all of those are perfectly valid and true. They could have a change in brain chemistry or other biological markers, but it’s often considered important that such things are not prerequisites to their gender identity being valid, even if their brain chemistry and activity is exactly the same that does not mean one gender identity or expression is the ‘true’ one and the others are not. Instead, it is solely based on their intrinsic sense of self as it pertains to gender and how they choose to express it, free of physiological correlation. That is not at all to say that your beliefs are wrong, I am not expressing an opinion on that as I don’t have one, I don’t feel a need to make a value judgement on your beliefs. I’m simply pointing out that it’s not a belief which is universally shared, or one which is aligned with that which is typically taught at this time.