The lich pushed using a BUG that will be fixed and confirmed by the devs. Did 4 Million hit damages due to numerous bugs. That skill is not meant to work like that and will be fixed next patch.
Sentinel on the other hand, is working as intended, build uses no bugs.
No, I built full tank just to illustrate how tanky you can get.
Every lich at 300+ waves used a BUG related to Dead Seal to push.
Dead Seal was doing 2 million hits (4 Million crits), and with so much leech from those huge hits that you cant die if you play properly.
This bug will be fixed for 7.9 confirmed by the devs and those numbers wont be possible. Lich is crimally underpowered (for high waves) aside from the mentioned bug ^^
Top 5 ladder player w/ perfect gear proves how tanky block is. Demands nerf.
âRemoves ANY SKILLâ âuber brokenâ
Those are some extremely strong words. Certainly makes me feel like shit for not being able to get past 150. I certainly would struggle against 3 siege golums at 40 let alone 400.
The word on the street is youâre rockân some sweet gear. Iâve watched you play. Youâre good. How many hours logged? Did you do this push with pimped out gear?
So what now, every build youâre good at gets nerfed?
I think you are taking this the wrong way. So il try to explain myself better.
As you said, i have played this game alot, and grind alot. I have great gear and I have pushed every class. I have finished Rank 1 on the ladder every patch since april, so yes, I play alot.
The people who are playing at a more casual level dont really care about this, or canât see the issue affecting top content, as they have never done it, and that is completly fine. Once you get the skillset and the knowladge about the game to push high, everything changes perspective.
I pushed to rank 1 many times with different builds, it always took effort, multiple attemps, and tons of resources. I have never made a post like this, for my other builds that I was good at, cuz I worked for them, I worked really hard and they felt earned. I knew that just becouse i pushed a build to wave X, it wasnt the build alone, it was me also.
This push on the other hand, took no effort. As i have done this kind of pushes before, i can grasp and compare how hard this was, compared to other achievements.
For the 2 handed version of this build, I earned that, and I am confident that even ef people copy the build they wont necesarily push with it, cuz it takes a lot of skill and grind to get to that point.
With the shiled version, I was immortally OP. I had other players newer to the game push the build and succed with trash gear.
The Shiled version is so strong, that dosnt matter what your skill or gear is, if you follow this steps, you will outperform your previous results without actually becaming a better player or getting better gear. You wonât have to play the game, like all the other builds need to, identifyng dangerous mobs and aproching them differently, with this build u just afk stand in the middle of screen for 400 waves.
That, is the problem.
Also if you struggle to beat that 150 mark and you are interested into pushing higher, feel free to come by my stream, i will gladly help you ^^
The mobs destroy all other builds. Thats the point of the post xd
Here is what I saw. I saw a very good player, with very good gear, who went full bonkers on block, tank a CRAP TON of damage and kill a lot of things painfully slow. So slow in fact I put the video on 2X playback.
I would hope a tank die slow and kill slow. And despite what you say, it appeared some skill was involved.
We had a really good discussion on this during Lizardâs stream yesterday. My own takeaways from the conversation were this:
It seems to me that the problems lie within Sentinel itself. The tankiness of vengeance is heavily compounded by the damage reduction of both block and the on block procs. I suggest a balance pass for sentinelâs block, especially if we ever get other melee skills with damage reduction in the future (which many of us think should happen).
How tanky is that build if you donât use Vengeance?
I havenât tested it myself, but thereâs a reason why builds like these use Vengeance and not Rive. The DR is way too good to pass up. That being said it would be interesting to see how far a Rive build could go with a similar setup.
This is completely incorrect for several reasons.
Block should be balanced for all stages of the game: leveling, early and late end game.
Block simply is a second layer of defence only one class can use effectively and thatâs the sad part of it. Leave block as it is np who cares but make it available for everyone. I said the same thing about ward, block on ward, ward on hit asoasf. Why should only certain classes have this benefit and others are shafted?
Last time I looked at my Sentinel he had 80ish% protections and 75ish% on block while sitting on 90% BC and 100% burst BC. This single piece of gear changes the whole defence mechanic like kind of a second set of armor⌠itâs bonkers.
I see only two options to keep block in check. A Harcap in Blockchance and blocks soak all damage or still high block chances with far less protections on it. Another 50% multi DR layer should be more then enough. I donât calculate healing and leech into it and look at this mechanic only and right now block is what ward was in a certain way⌠OP and an unfair advantage over other classes who canât make use of a shield in a way the Sentinel does. Should shield play be special for Sentinel? Well yeah makes sence! Should it offer an advantage no other class can have? Well only if other classes have an advantage by themself whatâs not the case or no! Everyone agreed Ward was OP because it was and is in a far better place now so why shouldnât block recive the same treatment?
Sure the devs are welcome to give every class a mechanic that is as good as block or ward but I canât see it. When I look at shamans, beastmasters and druids the world isnât looking that great and i realy fear rogues will have even bigger troubble but thatâs maybe only my pessimistic selfe.
I simply canât see any reason why Class X should have another layer of XY% protections against other classes. At the end of the day you need to work with skills and equip and push your limites⌠like every other class⌠dah. Maybe a Dev will enlighten me/us how they look at the topic and if they have plans to change stuff in the future or if other classes will feel some love because Sentinels can keep all their stuff when other classes are fund and save to play as well compared to the relative skilllevel of the player.
I see two problems, the first being that a combination of block and evasion mechanics makes one pretty much invulnerable and the 2nd being that block alone, especially on sentinels is freaking strong.
I come from the mmorpg genre and I canât understand why itâs even possible to combine dodge (a mechanic for fast, flexible rogue type characters) and block (a mechanic for sturdy, heavy armored tank like chars).
As first step Iâd split those mechanics by adding a heavy negativ stat on dodge to all shields. Like -20 to -50% dodge rating while a shield is equipped.
On a second step Iâd rework block in a way that it mitigates a % of damage received with a cap of maybe 75%.
On a third step Iâd make sure that itâs not possible to get 100% block rate (cap).
After that you can discuss wether or a not a block should reflect some of damage, since hitting a shield should damage the attacker atleast a bit.
How much dodge, or rather, how many dodge affixes do you need on a Primalist to hit the dodge cap at end game?
But you can say the exact same thing about ward & dodge. Can the Sentinel/Primalist have many thousands of ward?
Which would just make it a different name for Dodge. Very boring (IMO).
Thatâs probably a better idea, though it does water down block for all classes.
How much ward on hit can the Mage/Acolyte classes generate? Thatâs not an inconciderable advantage.
It probably should, but itâs difficult to balance different defensive mechanics that are designed to work in different ways.
You have ward thatâs always on & protects against all damage until you run out of it (or generate more) & it makes protections irrelevant (since itâs not possible to get enough protections for them to be meaningful or useful).
Dodge is RNG but protects against all hits & gives 100% damage reduction to a dodged hit. Protections are also irrelevant if you dodge & vital if you donât. Or you can stack ward.
Block buffs your protections so it has diminishing returns build in (perhaps not enough) but itâs also got an RNG element to it. What can we do to make block useful & mechanically different to the other two defences? If it werenât an RNG you could probably give it a mechanic where it mitigates all damage from a particular direction, but I donât think that would work in a game with hordes of trash mobs that doesnât really focus on movement as part of the core gameplay.
Perhaps it could reduce a blocked hit by a flat amount (like Grim Dawn) with higher tier shields being more effective (in terms of block chance & damage reduced)? If it didnât have a cooldown then it would be effective against lots of small hits but not against bigger hits. Or you could give it a cooldown & the Sentinel passives to reduce that. Then maybe give shields (or the Sentinel) passives that increase protections while a shield is equipped.
Then have him him put on my gear and show us how OP it is. Op gear should make you OP. If he really wanted to illustrate how OP a build is he shouldnât do it by donning gear that is a product of probably 1000âs of hours of game play. When the top of the ladders are saturated with Forge Gaurds because its OP then maybe Iâll start buying into this.
But as its stands even if he is ânearly unkillableâ he also is ânearly unable to killâ And to me that IS the trade off.
Just by population on the ladders alone Iâd argue the Forge Gaurd isnât very popular. Making it less âtankyâ is going to do what?
I vote let block ride a patch or two.
Itâll be good to see what happens to the leaderboard when the patch fixes the Lichâs bug.
Once new ladder happens and if block is as is, The ladder is dominated by full block paladins / full block forge guards.
But why isnât it filled with Sentinels now? I think thatâs just the perception problem I mentioned earlier. Right now Liches are the flavour of the month given the bug plus theyâve had several new skills which always attracts people. I wouldnât be surprised if Sentinels did feature more heavily next patch, because death seal will be fixed (waiting for the threads about how it was nerfed unreasonably just like the threads about ward when that was nerfed).
Iâve had another think about block. What if a shield reduced a blocked hit by a flat amount with a cooldown just like Grim Dawn and block effectiveness was changed to be + to all armour and protections at 1/10 to 1/5 of the amount (so 200-500 which would be a reasonable defensive chunk). It effectively becomes a defensive stat stick all classes can use.
The Sentinel would have passives that boost the blocked damage, block chance and improve the cooldown (because we want the Sentinel to have a better block). Above the 25 point line each mastery would get a passive that changes how block functions.
Forge Guard would get a 100% cooldown reduction (with a reduction to the damage blocked) so it would be very effective against swarms of small mobs but not against big hits.
Void Knight gets something timey-wimey, maybe block procs an echo (of the last skill echoed, just like the bug with instant skills being echoed).
Paladin gets, a burst of Holy Aura? A pool of consecrated ground on block? Something that ties in with the holy warrior archetype.