At least in this way you get some of the used shards back and sometimes even all used shards or even more shards then used ^^.
2 Likes
A big difference between PoE and LE when it comes to loot philosophy is the desire to actually pick up and use things that drop. PoE is VERY MUCH about not looting anything but the very highest value things just to sell for currency. The currency is then used to craft the specific thing (which is usually absurdly and prohibitively expensive to do). This leads to people running through maps as fast as possible.
LE wants people to pick up loot on the ground and craft on top of it. Crafting in LE isn’t so much “crafting” as it is augmenting.
I really like the complexity of PoE and how they made “currency” in the game not pointless by making them also the crafting items. I just don’t like that farming in that game is just about currency and not the actual items. It seems too much like playing the lottery and that is boring to me.
LE is about the actual items. I like that. There is a lot of variation in what items could drop that can get you to the BiS that you want.
2 Likes
This brings back the feeling of D2 item hunting for me. We had no chance to augment items, we had to actually find an upgrade (disregarding sockets, runes, runewords etc). And we had 1 chance per char per difficulty for Charsi to fashion a useless rare.
(True story : I remember accidentally selling my dual leech polearm which I had been using for 2 months because nothing better had dropped - the shock and disappointment were huge!. This was before buyback. 30 mins later a better one dropped. The overwhelming joy was palpable.)
Regarding BiS in LE, it is nearly impossible to get “just the right thing” for an item slot without it generally affecting all the other item slots. So if I want Armour Shred on gloves, I’ll lose a resist slot and I’ll have to find another item to put resists on.
The way items fit together like a jigsaw - which 4 items do I put set resists on? etc - means that it’s not always possible to upgrade and swap one item without affecting the overall balance of stats and usually having to swap other items in/out.
This means that we end up saving a lot of “well, maybe” items in storage just in case we need to redesign and rebuild the item jigsaw when we get a tasty drop.
Then we go through a “well, if I put ‘X’ on gloves and ‘Y’ on amulet, I will need a relic with ‘ABCD’ on it to balance out my setup. But I can put ‘Y’ on gloves instead, upgrade a relic with ‘X’ and put ‘AB’ on an ammy that already has ‘CD’ on it”. Or is that just me? 
3 Likes
Each person abords crafting a different way. Personally, I go ham on it. Since there is an abundance of loot, anything that’s even remotely an upgrade, I craft it.
Let’s say my BiS chest is a Solarum Plate with +STR + VIT +HP +%HP. I will keep ANY Solarum Plate with one or more of those affix. When I find an item with 2 and a 3rd that’s not on the list, I’ll take my 1/3 chance with a rune of removal. You’ll fail a lot, fracture a lot, but the sheer quantity will make it works. I’ve fractured T14-15 items that were very good just “as is”, and I’ve upgraded item that were T3 to T19. I also tend to use glyph of stability a lot (like until my chance to upgrade are below 70%).
Sure it might be frustrating at times, but you get so many tries that I feel it’s fine.
2 Likes
1 - i Have some tabs (increasing atm) just for craft, i need to do that more, sometimes we craft “too agressively” and fracture xD (need to have a substitute)
2 - so, if you have at least 75 % chance of sucess you use only glyph of stability? when crafting chance drops to 74 %- you start using glyph of guardian? btw, you guys start rushing to T5 desired affix or craft tier per tier?
3 - Yep, thats good advice, sometimes, one tier is more important than others, like, fixing CA 100 % chance vs 10 % more physical damage, i try to fix defenses first
Oh man, i do that, i think, i have atm, 5~7 tabs for craft, some placeholders, some with good potential, i like this idea of “well, maybe” xD
1 Like
I’m pretty sure very few players have actually done enough crafting let alone controlled testing to make a statement that the RNG algorithm for the game is broken. Certainly, making this claim with only 100 crafts shows that you are posting out of frustration with the results in a very very small sample size, which is understandable as seeing fail after fail is frustrating, but it doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with a back end system which you have not done adequate testing on to make any kind of statement about with any kind of certainty.
1 Like
Each Point of instability adds 1% failure chance.
Each Current Affix Tier adds 5% failure chance.
Ex: For Tier 4 → Tier 5, you have an innate 20% failure chance, plus 1% per point of instability.
Chance of success w/o Glyph of the Guardian (glyphs were used to get the furthest possible)
Crafting 1 Affix
Affix 1 (0 Instability → 25 Instability)
Tier - 1 - 100% → 2 - 90% → 3 - 80% → 4 - 70% → 5 - 60%
Affix 2 (25 Instability → 45 Instability)
Tier - 0 - 75% → 1 - 65% → 2 - 55% → 3 - 45% → 4 - 35% → Fracture
Final Success Chance: 35%
Total Success Chance W/ Guardian: 24.4%
Total Success Chance W/O Guardian: 3.6%
Chance of Success W/ Glyph of Stability
Crafting 1 Affix
Affix 1 (0 Instability → 13 Instability)
Tier - 1 - 100% → 2 (Crit) - 100% → 3 - 88% → 4 - 79% → 5 - 71%
Affix 2 ( 13 Instability → 39 Instability)
Tier - 0 - 87% → 1 - 78% → 2 - 70% → 3 - 61% → 4 - 51% → Fracture
Final Success Chance: 51%
Total Success Chance: 7.3%
Second Glyph of Stability Test
Affix 1 (0 Instability → 13 Instability)
Tier - 1 - 100%. → 2 - 93% → 3 - 86% → 4 -78% → 5 - 71%
Affix 2 ( 13 Instability → 21 Instability)
Tier - 0 - 87% → 1 -79% → Fracture
Final Success Chance: 79%
Total Success Chance: 30.4%
In my first Glyph of Stability test, with a lucky crit, I ended at the same point as using Glyphs of the Guardian.
In my second GoS Test, by the time I reached the second Affix, I had the same instability as the first.
Using a Glyph of Stability during the initial crafting sections means you can get a T5 craft with less instability, which makes all subsequent crafting more likely. I had roughly double the total chance to succeed by using Glyphs of Stability compared to no glyphs.
However Glyph of the Guardian clearly increases your total success chance, especially once you begin T4/T5 affixes, as it negates the failure chance from the affix level completely.
If you switch to a second Affix, the odds jump significantly, as the tier adds additional failure chance.
Every 25% chance of failure adds 1 tier to the fracture.
100 → 75 - No Fracture
75 → 50 - Minor Fracture
50 → 25 - Damaging Fracture & 25% Minor
25 → 0 - Destructive Fracture & 25% Damaging & 25% Minor
In essence, a Glyph of the Guardians adds 25% success chance. To beat it, a Glyph of Stability needs to reduce more than 25 Instability, so it’s more worthwhile on low tier affixes to use Stability, while you have a low failure chance.
The best method for crafting from 0 Instability is likely Stability till T3 on your core affix, then on all the other three to T1. After that use Guardian on your highest, followed by all 3 in rotation.
This should get you 1 T5, and 3 T3, unless your unlucky and get a damaging fracture dropping your affixes.
2 Likes
… He’s not letting it happen. The RNG engine is working as intended. You don’t like intention apparently. But you are not encountering anything that isn’t the way it is supposed to be and in fact you’re not getting the short end of anything, you are experiencing a small sample of something that takes a far larger sample to fully experience to completion. You don’t drive a car for 30 minutes in heavy traffic and then take it back to the car dealership bitching about it not getting 30 mpg do you?
I’ve played this game for way too many hours since I bought it a month ago. I’ve not run into anything in the crafting that feels out of sorts. Does that mean that I’ve never hit a string of fails that has been frustrating? I’ll let you answer that rhetorical question. In fact, I’m not even fully on board with this gearing system. I hope that the finished game vastly improves the place in which gear is at this moment as the place it is in kind of sucks overall. Uniques are nothing more than that for the most part; a neat little piece of gear with a line or two of lore that doesn’t fit into a build most of the time, also there aren’t enough of them with enough variance at this time. Gambled/crafted gear is better than 95% of gear you will find from drops, so why do we even care that gear drops in this scenario? There are a number of improvements that could be made to the game and smoothed out to increase QoL, but changes to the RNG algorithm don’t appear to be necessary.
The fact is the human mind is shitty at properly interpreting and analyzing randomly generated events, whatever they may be. The human mind is always looking for some reason for the outcome, i.e. “I’ve had a shitty string of luck on the this random number generator, something must be broken”! The inherent flaw is with the human mind not with the algorithm. There isn’t “reason” to the results in the way that people look for “reason” which is in fact not typically looking for reason but rather looking for somewhere to place blame when the outcome is not what they want/expect. The reason is that’s how it was built, that is the intended function. If you don’t like it then you don’t like the format of the game. These things happen. Not a big deal.
1 Like
Yes because if you loose to much stability you don’t have any chance to get 4 T5 item easy as that. Those three steps are simply my rules I apply personaly that’s nothing everyone should do it just turned out to be usefull and saved me a lot from frustration.
1 Like
Noooo, it’s not just you. 
Gearing in LE is like solving a puzzle…
1 Like
really, really good answer, i will read it calmly later, but thank you, for taking time and explaining with details and math stuff, helped a lot, i will apply this in my future craftings, seems a really good crafting strategy. 
Oh, i wanted to understand better your strategy, cause i liked it, its good to be safe, kinda save from frustration, it’s not good when you fracture your “main gear” without substitute xD.
Are you talking about normal puzzles or about those without border pieces that are only white and have 10 spare parts that fit nowhere? ^^,
@helot_commander explained it very well. If you have to little Stability left you messed up your item… to put it short. The more stability you use the more fractures you’ll get and that’s why I gamble early because who cares about a 3 t3 piece of gear for example.
The most important and maybe frustrating part is to find suiteable equipment. I#m grinding for gear with good bases and only 2+ affixes and suffixes on the item I want. If there is anything on the item I don’t want I don’t use it for crafts. This way you save a lot of stability and make crafting pretty easy. My best crafting results came from 2 T4 items I craft up because these 2 T4 parts make a crafters life much easier. If you find items with 4 stats you want on you have the highest possible chances to make 4 T5s if you start crafting on a white item you are doomed because iirc a white item never has enough stability to be a 4 T5 item. Crafting in LE isn’t that complicated. I want my Vanguard crafting with the minigames back… one wrong step and everything you used for crafting was gone and I talk about dozens of hours of farming in the late game :D. LE’s crafting is okay but I just see a lot of logical weeknesses in it.
2 Likes
^This deserves more attention than it was given
Stats do a great job but these apply to industries where we talk about yelds, 24/7 factories and parts per MILLION.
All the RNG algos and engines do work but at a scale that surely surpasses that of a person farming 100h in LE.
We should not rely entirely on such systems because the user experience is more restricted,
Among real use cases there must be considered ones such as this:
Moreover real industry stacks positive odds anywhere possible on top of each other trying to reach 99.9…9%
Think about producing wafers that contain chips each one having billions transistors and you want as many of these as possible to be yelded positive
While as for LE it seems to be the case that it copies POE systems, that are:
Hence these are INVERSELY stacked against the player, so these rng walls send us towards 0.00…% rather than the opposite.
A nice quote i’ve read recently in its forums was: POE is a trade to win game
So what I’m saying is that OP experience is TRUE, the RNG test results are also TRUE ofc,
such miserable RNG results are expected because in insight it may be a bad decision to rely on such designs with that kind of deviation
^^^ This is 100% how I feel about gear at the moment, but it isn’t specifically driven by crafting successes/fails, and more on there just seems like gear overall is meh, from the way we get it to the way that one piece is differentiated from another, to how the tiers of gear compare to one another, and on. Uniques feel uninspiring for the most part, same with any set pieces I have come across (granted as stated earlier I’ve only purchased the game last month so there are others that have much more experience in the game and may have differing experiences and opinions based on that larger amount of time).
I rarely find an item from a drop that I am excited about which is one of the key elements of ARPGs (at least for me). Usually, it’s find an item that looks like it could be decent, then go to work trying to turn it into what I really want/need through crafting where you get to RNG RNG RNG. That is fine and good (though certainly could use some tweaking), but right now that is for basically EVERY piece of gear. There needs to be some variance in there where you just find that crazy good drop that is perfect as is and slides right in as a legit upgrade. Right now I only find those pieces while leveling and that’s inconsequential for the most part.
I feel my “meh” is more about the overall state of gear and gear progression in the game rather than the workings of the crafting system itself. The fact we ONLY have crafting as a legit means of upgrades at this time feels worse to me right now than how crafting works in practice.
This is probably the biggest reason for loot drops and crafting disappointment.
Crafting is fundamental to gearing and we are ‘forced’ to craft making the crafting system feel more difficult and cumbersome than it ought to be. The variation in implicits on top of the affixes makes item finding a chore, even with a loot filter.
In D2 and many other games, a drop was a drop - you could easily see if it was an upgrade or not and quickly swap in/out an item or 2 to make it fit. Or you could go the full crafting route in other games and make stuff a lot easier than in LE.
I kind of like the LE system, then at other times it is so frustrating it can be a real downer.
1 Like
i Agree with your opinion, i never crafted much on PoE aside from the basic, i really like the craft on LE, but, theres a problem, it shouldn’t be the only option, maybe this can change with the introduction of Legendarys, crafting its good, its really interesting, can fill gaps in your build, etc, etc, but i dont know man, the only way…
But, what do you guys think about legendaries, Unique, Sets? they could be an option from endgame? or LE vision on that is endgame will be the majority crafted rare gear and no much Uniques/Sets/Legendarys etc?
This is true at the moment. There is a lot of item work to still be put into the game. I feel like uniques atm can’t really compete because they aren’t strong enough in general for the loss of affix slots. That wouldn’t be an issue if so many affix slots weren’t considered required just to survive in the game.
1 Like
Heyo i am not invovle in this conversation, because i already did state my opinion more than once on this forums, about crafting and rng in general.
First of all, i would not recommend you to just randomly tag so many guys.
I can confidently say, that probably half of the people you tagged, already are aware of this thread and would have responded if they have anything meaningful to say.
I will comment on one thing here: Unqiues & Sets.
I think Unique & Set Items are in a really good place in LE. Alot of them are just low/mid lvl mediocre items, but there are lot of “cool” ones, most of them are just very niche and specific, that they are not usable in “most” builds. So the chances of finding a “good” unique for your builds at low/mid levels is pretty low.
Some of the more “endgame-viable” unqiues are super cool and literally unique. I guess alot of the guys here in the thread just don’t know that they do exist.
We all just can guess, what role exactly “Legendaries” will play in the greater part of endgame.
I also think that itemization in LE is currently very unstatisfying, because it’s so easy to reach resis cap and finding exalted items rarely comes with huge “excitment”.
But there is already another thread discussion that topic, not really fitting here.
1 Like
They want most of your gear to be crafted and crafted to be a big part of end game gearing. They said in their FAQ that they don’t want full unique builds to be a thing.
2 Likes