I’ll go into a bigger explanation since it seems warranted.
First the answer to your quote directly.
Then an explanation of a distinction I’m making.
The explanation how it’s visible in the different game systems.
Layer explanation
What it does psychologically at each respective stage in more detail.
Leftover ‘valuable’ items.
How the perception of value differs in other games of the genre.
Afterword
Answer to your quote directly
I’m saying it works on the same baseline as the drop-system, not that it has no RNG. Obviously it has RNG, that was never for discussion in the first place.
But it’s the same ‘layer’ as drops.
Like the gambling in PoE 2 is the same ‘layer’ as drops.
It’s an alternative method.
Crafting is not an alternative method but a follow-up. That’s a distinct difference.
And well, might be I was wrong there, ages ago, my bad in that case.
Same with the follow-up aspects about D2.
Explanation of the difference
It’s about the distinct difference between ‘drop RNG’ and ‘adjusting items through RNG’ though.
Specifically the part of ‘adjusting existing things on a item through RNG’. Explicitly not taking into consideration things like enchantments happening on top of existing values or items adding new things outside of the base values.
This means things like Runewords in D2 are excempted from that aspect, as are Augments from Grim Dawn. They don’t change the already existing state of a item but enhance it, in 100% of the cases. There is no fail-state in those types of crafting.
In this case we’re solely talking about RNG related to crafting which changes pre-existing states. In this case explicit modifiers. In PoE 1 it’s 3 Prefixes / 3 Suffixes. In LE it’s 2 Prefixes / 2 Suffixes.
That’s the only aspect where the RNG argument is to be considered.
D2 had no option to adjust them. It solely had combination type options through the horadric cube.
Which also caused runewords to not cause an item to ever be bricked actually. The recipe of 1 Hel + town portal + the socketed item caused the socketed things to be removed and destroyed. Which yes, expensive but allows for a re-roll on the base. So the base is sustained.
This is a inherently different type of ‘crafting’ hence then we see in modern ARPGs.
The modern ARPGs have introduced crafting mechanics on the basis of the horadric cube, but more targeted and in another way.
PoE 1 for example directly interacts with the explicit Affixes, which couldn’t be done in D2, you could only add extras on top.
LE does the same, the core crafting mechanic is distinctly interfering with the explicit modifiers.
So let’s please stay at those rather then other mechanics which have another task/goal/setup.
The visibility in different game systems
The RNG with the ability for an item to actively ‘brick’ at this stage is a general detriment. Since variance is massive. Thousands of different possible outcomes as a baseline and billions/trillions when we take into consideration roll ranges as well.
So the danger needs to be respectively low as the chance to get a ‘unwanted outcome’ is supremely high.
PoE does it by never bricking an item, you can re-craft on it as often as you want. A good base is the primary aspect to go with. Better Affixes as a drop are either viable to use ‘as is’ or to improve through some crafting methods further. It makes a large slew of drops viable and valuable hence.
In Grim Dawn we don’t have it existing at all, hence drops inherently have a massive value on their own. It solely depends on the drop if something is great or bad.
The more you allow to adjust an item the less the individual stats on a drop become important but instead the possibilities what you can do with it. The drop itself ‘looses values’ unless it’s a distinctly rare Affix which is very hard to acquire… or impossible to acquire through other means then drops.
In LE those are exalted items and ‘personal’ sealed Affixes currently. Everything else is ‘worthless’ simply.
Layers and their explanation in LE
So that leads to the current issues if we take it into consideration and see the systems as layers. And I’ll urge on that word over… and over again for a reason, or we’ll simply return to the nonsensical mess of taking ‘enchantments, augments or whatever’ into consideration which don’t brick a item.
So the current layers to create a legendary item (the most common used equipment piece per slot) are:
Unique acquisition → Drop layer. (Unique type + LP value of importance)
Exalted Acquisition → Drop layer. (Base type + FP + Affixes of importance)
RNG obviously, wrong type = brick. Which is fine, not every item is supposed to be a ‘win’.
Those 2 are drop-based. That’s the drop system, nothing more, nothing less. Remove all crafting and you get what you drop.
The variance though is so high unlike in D2 back then (which had a miniscule amount of different Affixes) that getting a viable item upon progression is nigh impossible. That mandates a follow-up mechanic.
Exalted optimization → Crafting layer.
RNG based. It can brick. But we already had the chance to brick before… reduntant.
Why do I say ‘redundant’ here? Because if you can’t guarantee value from a drop then a drop can’t have inherent value. The best drop - unless able to skip this step - is hence ‘worthless’ by design. Value has not yet been created, you’ve earned nothing yet.
Combining Unique + optimized exalted → Slamming layer.
RNG based. It can also brick, but only 2 and 3 LP. Also redundant hence.
This means once more that any dropped unique outside of 1 LP and 4 LP has no value unless usable ‘as is’ If you’re at the 1 LP stage and got the perfect roll then 2 LP and 3 LP are worthless… until finished.
This also means that any exalted item up to the result of this layer is worthless unless ‘used as is’
What does that mean psychologically?
If you drop any item you are supposed to get a sense of success. A sense of progress.
Psychologically if you get an item and it’s not 100% usable at this second in the LE system hence there is no perception of ‘success’ yet.
The one system supposed to provide it… doesn’t do it, since you have a very high chance to ruin it in the follow up, the minimal chance is 33% with a 3 LP item and it’s 66% with a 2 LP item to be left with ‘nothing’.
So even if you find a 2 T7 item which are 2 rare affixes and are fitting together… as long as the base isn’t also ‘perfect’ to use right away, and the other 2 Affixes fitting already… it has no value yet. Your 1 T7 exalted is stronger. It’s done with near 100% guarantee before getting this item as a drop.
This leaves the following items as 'valuable
Exalted drops on the top-tier base with the fitting - or moveable - Affixes already on them. It only counts if not a single Affix has to be removed through a rune of removal or glyph of chaos, both fail easily.
0 LP uniques when you first acquire them.
1 LP uniques when you first acquire them.
4 LP uniques.
And a few extra items depending on the stage of the game. Right affixes, better combination. This fades away the moment the first ‘optimal’ craft happens. Be it 4 T5 or higher, it immediately removes a immense amount of items as ‘viable’ when it happens.
That’s a miniscule amount of drops, reducing enjoyment from drops substantially, unlike any other diablo-like does.
Examples for other game systems in comparison
D2:
Base Affixes get never adjusted. That means a dropped base item permanently retains value from then on. You can’t ‘loose’ it anymore.
The methods to ensure that are the ability to add sockets (3 perfect skills + item + Stone of Jordan), improve the quality from normal up to elite (2 specific runes + 1 specific gem + item), and also remove any socketed items in it (1 Hel + Town portal + item).
This guarantees a drop retains always value, the drop itself is valuable as you cannot loose it without making mistakes.
PoE 1:
Affixes are worthless. Bases have value.
Everything can be adjusted freely to a degree.
The value of items in this system is based on the progress from nothing to perfect based on the respective base item.
If we take it from 0 for being a normal item to 100 for being perfect then every drop has a value related to it in-between. Most are ‘0’ but every item dropped in high content can become a ‘100’.
A magic item with the right toll on it hence becomes a ‘5’ and can be forced to return back to this ‘5’. You cannot loose the ‘5’… it can’t return to ‘0’ anymore unless you make mistakes.
Forther steps in the process raise this arbitrary designed number from me. It gradually becomes 10… 20… 50… until your item is better then what you have, at which time you switch.
Value is not lost along the way, it can only gain value over time
The exception is corruption, which is primarily applicable to uniques - low variance in drops - but not base items which are the majority of used items
PoE 2:
Has the same issues as LE. Drops are worthless, even more so then in LE.
That’s why the crafting mechanics there are so badly received.
Nothing has value, it is either ‘you can use it now’ or has a ridiculously miniscule chance of becoming that.
Only a short amount of items are of value, hence the perception of the game is negative for itemization
Torchlight Infinite:
Drops have inherent value up to a point.
Items have so called ‘plasticity’ (basically FP). You can guarantee 1 Affix and re-roll endlessly until you get the right tiers and Affixes.
Beyond 2 T1 Affixes it costs 4 ‘plasticity’ so there it starts to become a gamble theoretically. But you can still use it up to that point, getting 3 T1 is relatively easy, though usually it’s kept at 2 T1 Affixes + a random one (which is explained further later)
The guaranteed route of progression is 2 T1, then adding another Affix through enchanting and adding 2 more Affixes through so called ‘targeted processing’. The 6th Affix is a low Tier one that gets raised, so you’ll always end up with 5T1 + enchant.
In this stage there is no perceived loss of value, until you reach the end-point of that items always retain their value, unless you screw up
The negative aspect comes beyond that, but that’s again absolute top-end and equivalent to corruption in PoE. Upgrading tiers costs ‘Plasticity’ to a large degree, but that’s doable. Creating a 6 T1 item is relatively cheap and viable to do, you can go so far as to guarantee it. This is the ‘perceived end-line’ for the general player.
Beyond that it has the same issues as LE and PoE 2.
Raising a Affix above T1 removes all plasticity and a random Affix, hence it can brick.
If you’re at that stage of progression hence nothing has value anymore from pickups which is a intrinsically bad state for a loot-based ARPG to have, pickups matter and should always matter.
But even then you can relatively easily create a 1 T0 + 2 T1 inherently crafted item with the right mods. Adding 2 T1 + enchant is doable.
That’s the top-end and you could theoretically go further, but that’s ‘oh wow that’s a sick item close to mirror-tier in PoE’ already.
Afterword
As you can see there’s distinct differences between the crafting systems of every game.
But inherently no game which has a ‘brick methodology’ does well. The most critical in the list are LE, PoE 2 followed by Torchlight Infinite.
Torchlight has a relatively low chance to brick which makes people excuse that aspect since the expected effort to achieve the top-end through repetition of acquisition is miniscule.
PoE 2 is seen as ‘awful’ in terms of itemization top-end.
LE usually stops having any content before it happens, it’s catching up though and already more and more people complain about the state of itemization.
This is the reason as to why.
Or you slam the sockets onto it. The runes needed for that are quite cheap, all low runes.
Sure, but the base item is kept, right? So it’s a crafting try without ‘brick’
You can remove the runeword with a Hel rune after all… but that would be a bit of a waste, easier to get another one rather then a Hel.
And as you mentioned… they added a way to even remove this insignificant amount of effort which is perceived as ‘bricking’.
So I really really don’t get how the defensive stance towards bricking mechanics is upheld.
It’s a prime showcase even as to a negatively perceived system and how it’s been changed regardingly.
).
And specifically went into those aspects in more details.