I understand what you’re saying and this would probably be annoying in the campaign, much like it was annoying in D2. But that is because the campaign has a sequence, so you need to find the exit for the next one.
In echoes, it should make no difference. You don’t need to find an exit. You just need to find the objective which is random already anyway. And once you do the objective you just portal out.
So it wouldn’t make much difference while running echoes if it were procedurally generated, IMO.
Welllll it depends on how they do it. if its anything like dungeons, it will be hated. Putting random boulders in places they are not always isnt fun or engaging. it just makes me roll my eyes as I go down the lifeless passage ways of the area looking for an exit. In echos I just roll around and eventually find my goal I dont feel blockaded and thats how dungeons feel. Dungeons I am trying to get out as fast as possible because I feel like im being trapped like a mouse in a cage or something. it just has poor gamefeel and I cant fully express why, but im certainly not alone.
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Yes, but again, in a dungeon you’re trying to find the exit to move on to the next section. It’s the same problem as in a campaign. You want to reach your destination to proceed and keep getting blocked.
In an echo, there is no exit. You just move until you finish your objective. There is no door you have to find. Just a mob you have to kill. That changes the whole perspective.
It makes all the difference between a “one and done” type of map, where it doesn’t matter if it’s random or not, and a “must go through this to find the exit to the next area” type of map.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
HAHA, what I was suggesting is much worse than just a map put together in a random order (like D2, which I think is maybe what EHG is trying to do). I was suggesting a campaign was put together like an echo; so a random WORLD each campaign play-through. And all the campaign quest starter tasks/end tasks were laid out in that random collection of echo nodes (zones) (or maybe it would be easier to define quest hubs).
I wasn’t suggesting anything to do with randomizing the map layout, but I did assume that was part of what EHG was working on.
Not alone 
For me, I think I hate dungeons, especially Julra’s pad, because;
- the ‘surprise’ elements of the dungeon (blocked doors) do not bring surprise, excitement or joy, they simply slow down passage through the dungeon.
- Running the dungeon provides nothing of value except that value which is part of the dungeon activity. Example of an ARGP having ‘value add’ surprises in the dungeon runs; D4, in the nightmare dungeons you’ll often come across a big chest, a person in need of help or the butcher. You don’t need to do it (well, you do need to deal with the butcher). It has nothing to do with the dungeon itself. It’s just scripted (person needing help) or random (the butcher being in your dungeon) value add experience (not ‘character experience’, a play-experience a player has)
2 makes me want to get through the dungeon as fast as possible. 1 annoys me further. There isn’t anything random or fun going to happen, get me to the boss, asap!
Given the way EHG Mike talks about this stuff, I really think they get it, and are trying to add that (they have already added some; loot lizards, rune prisons, big(ger) chests). I hope some of that thinking eventually makes it’s way into dungeon so that the dungeon run itself is entertaining, rather than just the boss (after the first couple of runs)
