Hold up wrong node haha. Sorry that bode i didnt take since I was doing a reflect build to begin with i wanted them to take full damage
Did you try taking that build & not going reflect to see how things went? If so, was it much better/worse?
Im still gearing for it. Since I know I can have 100% putrid wraiths (ranged poison) im going to stack minion dodge as well as dodge for me and give minions defense. They will still have reflect since after wave 200 its still good damage will test in next couple days
This amount of ward is not achieveable unless you’re standing still and constantly cast Rip Blood. In the arena, you have to recast your minions and move to dodge stuff, so you’ll probably never reach that amount in higher waves. It also decays super fast so it’s not worth stacking that much.
I have a Necro that can get around 32k ward with 15 minions, but I actually never bother to get 32k ward in the arena. I usually have around 10k stable ward between resummoning and dodging stuff. In wave 300+, I usually can only maintain 6-8k because things are pretty hectic.
This mechanic really doesn’t need a hard cap because there already exists a soft cap i.e. you have to constantly resummon and cast Rip Blood. Your ward will also be lower if you decide to use another active skill like a curse.
I don’t think it’s right to see this and go “oh 150k ward! Nerf!!” without considering the practicality and opportunity cost to actually reach that amount.
3 Likes
Yeah, that’s a fair point about the practicalities of things like this, though I think you can make the exact same argument for block & protections on a Sentinel. I’m not sure how much EHP (hp + protections + block effectiveness) you can practically maintain on a Forge Guard, but I’d be surprised if it peaked as high as 6-8k & even then, in my experience that would mainly be armour (assuming you’re using Shield Throw for the armour gain on hit) which is pointless for non-physical damage, or (non-bleed) dots. Though I accept I’ve probably pidgeon-holed myself into a specific build & should probably “get out” a bit more build-wise (just because my build can’t do it, doesn’t mean no builds can)…
Great Ward ! 
Keep in mind that Ward will need to have higher amount to be competitive with other things because they can decay.
FG can ignore three damage sources with Sentinel conversion suffixes and an Orian’s Eye. They also have easy access to DR and high amount of block. I’m pretty sure they have way more than 6-8k EHP that does not decay like Ward. Yeah Dots are annoying but those are the only things that you have to dodge manually.
Also keep in mind 6k ward is bot equal to 6k protections. Ward not only decays but it takes time to get that 6k. 6k protections is constant. It’s why my 5k ward spellblade just cant compete with a 5k protections paladin even though it kills faster and can freeze mobs
And they take full damage due to not stacking protections.
And big hits, but yeah, that’s why I said I need to have a look at my Sentinel’s gear & try some different things. That said, I’m not sure one should place too much stock in using such a rare item as the Orian’s Eye.
Both block and this source of ward have the same problem:
You can get them with almost no investment, just for the sake of using the right skills.
Put the right points on Rip blood or Sigils and boom, you are set.
Both mechanics need to change imo, not just becouse they are powerful, but becouse they have nothing to do with gear progression and grind.
I dont mind a character with GG gear beeing OP, but both block and ward from minions have nothing to do with your gear. they are just there.
3 Likes
Gearing to ignore this 3 damage sources “only” requier to get the rearest unique, and the 2 rearest t5s on at least your chest (and you need your chest base to roll high crit avoidance)
I invested 10M gold and 400 hours just on getting a chest with those t5 affixes well rolled.
The ward on necro or the block on sentinel on the other hand, are free to get, and requiere aboulte no grind or gear. Thats why this are OP and the others are not.
Anyone can get this ward or the 90% block on sentinel, just copy Boardmans vid or copy my Block set up and you got it, dosnt matter ur gear or skill. On the other hand, good luck getting the sentinel converions t5 chest…
2 Likes
Don’t nerf all ward, just balance this source of it
This looks like a “broken” build. Playstyle wise it may be hard to obtain or keep up. But 150k ward compared to a “normal” ward amount is not real.
So it’s nice to see what you guys still get going after the huge ward nerf of the last patch. But this underlines that ward now more then ever is far away to be any kind if balanced.
I tried hard to get a Lich around level 60-70 working with ward as a defence mechanic. It is barely ok as an additional layer to hp and protections. But a low life Lich is just impossible to play. This mechanic, although supported with several items, mastery specific perk of the Lich and passive Lich nodes, just does not work.
So while it is impossible to get something like a ward build pre 0.7.8 times going, it still seems possible to get a horrendous amount of ward with one specific skill and build combination.
I don’t think this is going into the right direction. There should be a way to make ward builds without min/maxed equip on lvl 100.
Imho there is no way to balance this kind of stuff (referring also to the “block is op” topic) without hard caps or diminishing returns.
I remember this thread:
Maybe increase the amount of ward you can generate (from on hit or per second sources), then add an additional term to the ward decay formula that kicks in with additional decay above a few k ward. That way it’s easier for “normal” players to get more ward, but going balls to the wall would result in a lower amount of ward (due to the additional decay it would get at higher amounts).
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I’d rather like to see a way slower decay rate. Lower decay would make ward builds more fun to play because it’s less hectic and you don’t have that “oh fuck, I have to hit something to maintain my survivability!” all the time.
My suggestion would be to make ward retention at least as it was before 0.7.8 and had diminishing returns to ward gain per hit. This way you can soft cap ward at a certain amount and min/maxing may give you some bonus power.
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But…
Thats a huge investment, very few people will put 400 hours and 10million gold towards 1 character, let alone 1 build on it.
As for
Getting T5 int/minion health regen on almost every piece although not rara affixes still takes alot of gold and if you dont have that it takes alot of farming i wouldnt quite say it requires No grind or gear.
As for achieving 90% block yes that decently easy enough but thats not the problems. Lots of people get 90% block. Its the conversion of all the elements ttaken as other damage and huge amounts of block effectivenesss that get that build going. Its when there very few that have pushed it has high as you. It does take alot of investment. Yes also true you can get the ward from minions just from skills but to truely min max it requires good T5 rolls of 2 stats on all gear, that takes a bit of grind/gambling.
While they do feel OP once you have achieved them, they dont feel OP getting there at all.
5 Likes
Well said.
I disagree with that. While the gear requirement is low for both, they have different requirements to keep the uptime.
You just need to cast Sigils every few seconds to maintain the block chance. It doesn’t require buildup time and will never decay.
For the ward, you have to constantly cast Rip Blood and resummon your minions, while dodging a lot of stuff as well. When your minions die, you need time to rebuild your setup. There is a lapse in defence when you lose the minions. This also means there is a huge opportunity cost here because you are discouraged to use active skills other than Rip Blood.
While it doesn’t require rare affixes, it still needs different affixes to balance the character. The minions need to be reasonably tanky and your character also needs int/healing eff to make this happen. For most people, it still requires non trivial gear progression to be good.
Great Haerot, that build is friggin impressive! 
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